The 'E' Type Forum

Is there a major difference in value for the LHD to RHD series 3?

Simply put YES.

Even more so with the 3.8 S1's because the number of RHD ones was relatively small - 936 OTS and 1,799 FHC of a total 15,493 built. Even the RHD S1 4.2 was produced in relatively small numbers 1,183 OTS and 1,956 FHC out of a total of 17,320. Figures for the S3 are 3,897 RHD out of a total of 15,287. Genuine UK market cars are increasingly difficult to find and I think their prices are going to go up faster than LHD cars, even those converted to RHD. People seem to value 'rarity' if only for bragging rights in the pub

For what it's worth, in Australia there's a significant difference in price. LHD's tend to be in the vicinity of 20% to %30 cheaper here than comparable RHD's. A decent RHD goes for at least $55K. I just picked up a LHD for $39K. Given I wanted to convert mine, my enquiries revealed reputable Jaguar specialists wanted up to $20K for a full conversion. Needless to say, I'll be doing it myself.

Surely LHD cars are worth more in LHD countries and likewise RHD cars are worth more in RHD countries (assuming there have been no conversions).

Where a car has been converted it will still not be worth quite as much as an unconverted car that has the steering wheel on the right side for the country. eg a LHD car in Aust is worth much much less than a genuine RHD car but a car that was LHD and converted to RHD is still worth a lot less than the genuine item but buyers need to do their homework.

Garry

Totally agree with you Garry. The benefit of buying a LHD in Australia is it allows you to get into the e type market at a lower cost and if you can do the conversion yourself, parts can be aquired from UK for well under $5K. Therefore, total investment won't exceed total value, as you correctly point out, is probably below an original RHD import. Having said that, many prospective purchasers wouldn't care about it being converting, so long as the quality is good.

Mechanically there is no problem with converting an E-Type to LHD or RHD as they all came down the line in a way that allowed them to be built to the specification on the accompanying docket. With the way E-Type prices are going there will be those who treasure originality and those cars are becoming hard to find. If you want a copper bottomed investment an original car for your market with original features (matching numbers, correct colour, interior, registration number and ownership trail) is the place to go. The RHD cars will always be sought after because they are a lot rarer (fewer made, harsher climate, more scrapped) and it seems owners in Switzerland, Germany and Scandinavia insist on having a British sports car with genuine RHD. Same in the UK as Italian and German collectible classics have a higher value in LHD - go figure!

The chances of getting an E type that still has all it's original panels and has never been welded since it left Browns lane are considerably higher if you buy a LHD car from a dry (USA) state. Many were brought over to the UK in the 80s and 90s, and I'm sure that many other rust-free cars ended up in Europe and Australia.

If I was offered an original RHD car, I would expect to see huge bills for a complete body restoration. If I were offered an all-original panel ex California / Texas car, I would expect to see pictures of the car stripped of paint looking perfect, or it still have it's original paint.

Then I would value the original car much higher than the restored car....but I am very biased having 2 ex-Californian cars!
Mark

MarkE wrote:The chances of getting an E type that still has all it's original panels and has never been welded since it left Browns lane are considerably higher if you buy a LHD car from a dry (USA) state. If I was offered an original RHD car, I would expect to see huge bills for a complete body restoration. If I were offered an all-original panel ex California / Texas car, I would expect to see pictures of the car stripped of paint looking perfect, or it still have it's original paint.

Couldn't agree more. Which is more important - that a shell have every spot weld and panel it was given in Browns Lane, no more, no less, or that a welded-up repair job or new 2013 shell was/is fitted with the steering on the right? However, I have not the slightest wish to change any market perception that RHD cars are somehow more desirable. If that were ever to change it would make my preference more expensive. Let them carry on paying over the odds for RHD restored stuff while we drive round in cars put together in Coventry :-)

I have receipts for my FHC going back to 1975 and in that time it has had two replacement bonnets (due to accidents) plus hundreds of other parts replaced because of failure or corrosion and it has only done 82,000 miles in 51 years. That is the trouble with UK cars, our inclement weather meant many were scrapped and those that survived need considerable conservation work. There were six times as many LHD cars built as RHD (3.8's) and the dry States ensured their survival. Also because space is usually not at a premium in the US family's tended to hang on to their cars if only out of sentiment or good intention. Interestingly Harry is taking his red OTS #850057 with him to the US when he emigrates, and keeping it RHD1

MarkE wrote:The chances of getting an E type that still has all it's original panels and has never been welded since it left Browns lane are considerably higher if you buy a LHD car from a dry (USA) state. Many were brought over to the UK in the 80s and 90s, and I'm sure that many other rust-free cars ended up in Europe and Australia.

If I was offered an original RHD car, I would expect to see huge bills for a complete body restoration. If I were offered an all-original panel ex California / Texas car, I would expect to see pictures of the car stripped of paint looking perfect, or it still have it's original paint.

When I bought my car in the UK it was only 10 years old and it had already had major rust repair work mainly around the rear wheel arches and rear sill repair panels - all rusted and lots of repair, filler lead. Since coming to Australia 30 years ago the rust has stopped - very much on its own. The drier climate and no salt etc on the roads the better it is for the body of the car.

Garry

The British climate is pretty harsh on cars for sure, but the real killer was the total lack of protection for the cars when they were new. You very rarely see a rusty car on the roads these days, and the scrapyards are full of cars with a perfect body shell, engine and gearbox, but with tired electrics, tyres and exhaust systems.

I bought a '71 Escort Mexico a few years back that had been treated from new with a system called 'Ziebart', an earlier version of Waxoil / Dynatrol. When the cars were treated they sprayed the stuff everywhere...in the engine bay, in the boot and of course the underside and all the cavities. I spent 3 months removing the stuff from the visible places, and the car is totally rust free, almost unheard of for an Escort. I found a Dolomite Sprint 2 years ago that had the same treatment, and again, it is totally rust free.

These are two of the most rust-prone cars made in the UK in the early 1970s, and considering that they probably were used daily for 5 or more years, in all seasons, their survival is testimony to the rust-proofing systems.

I had my ex-Southern California S3 painted by Alan Proctor a few years back, the chap who has restored many of the JDHT cars. I had previously taken my lovely old manual Pre-HE XJS to him to get the shell restored, but received the dreaded phone call after 2 days to say that it was beyond economic repair. So I pushed the S3 in the slot to be done instead! 4 days later he phoned and said...you'd better come and have a look at this!

Somewhat alarmed after the experience with the XJS, I got up to see the car that afternoon, to find Alan with a big grin on his face claiming that he'd never seen a Leyland Jaguar in this condition before, and he showed me why. With an endoscope inside the sill, we could clearly see the inside of the outer and inner sills, and they were a lovely shinny metal colour. No primer, no paint, just metal....and no rust! After one winter in the UK this would have been solid rust, and after 2 or 3 years, the rust would start to come though.

He also showed me how thin the original paint was around the arches where they outer quarters were spot welded to the tubs, and many other semi-hidden places and again, that would have rusted through very quickly in a damp climate.

The joy of a car from a dry climate isn't just the preservation of the shell, but all the running gear as well. My front suspension still has it's original plating, the rear suspension hasn't been re-painted from new and looks very good, and every nut / bolt I touched came undone with a spanner, and nearly all still had their plating intact.

Before E Types I had restored a Healey 3000, an 'original RHD' car that looked to be in fine fettle. It took 10 or so cutting and grinding discs to take apart....spanners and socket sets were pretty useless, and I doubt that more than 20% of the original body/chassis unit survived the restoration. I vowed after that experience that I would never restore another UK car (other that a Lotus, where you can replace the metal bit...the chassis...in a week!), but I have updated that pledge to consider cars that had a Ziebart treatment from new (or of course, were originally South African or Australian delivery, but they are few and far between).

Each of my E Types now contain several gallons of Dynatrol, and they are not driven when there is salt on the road, so they should last well.


Here are the before and after pics of the Mexico...with Ziebart treatment, where every time I worked on the car I got covered in a filthy black waxy / oily stuff...



And after it was cleaned off....even the original stickers survived being under the Ziebart for 40 years! A very satisfying job to do.

If that Dolmite Sprint was maroon it probably belonged to my father! He had it Ziebarted immediately and the only bit of rust that ever appeared was a small area on the front edge of the bonnet which they obviously missed. Great stuff but beyond the scope of the home mechanic who were well served by the easier to apply Waxoyl. Ziebart are still going: http://www.ziebart.com/

Heuer wrote:I have receipts for my FHC going back to 1975 and in that time it has had two replacement bonnets (due to accidents) plus hundreds of other parts replaced because of failure or corrosion and it has only done 82,000 miles in 51 years. That is the trouble with UK cars, our inclement weather meant many were scrapped and those that survived need considerable conservation work. There were six times as many LHD cars built as RHD (3.8's) and the dry States ensured their survival. Also because space is usually not at a premium in the US family's tended to hang on to their cars if only out of sentiment or good intention. Interestingly Harry is taking his red OTS #850057 with him to the US when he emigrates, and keeping it RHD1

Triggers broom comes to mind David!