Steering Tie Rod Fracture

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:38 am

Angus : I don't think it only arises when jacking. The full travel is used more often than one thinks - the body only needs to be raised about 3 inches from the mid-laden position for full downwards travel to be reached, and in fact the degree of raise needed is less than this if the car is rolling to one side or another in a turn. Thus on winding , and /or bumpy in the sense of undulating , roads, the full down position can easily be reached. It clearly had happened quite a bit on mine , even in only 60 miles , as you can see from the third photo I posted of the tie rod in situ on page 1 of this. The rack had been moved up and down as a result , as can be seen from the rusty washer witness mark

I should also mention that Dave's point about jacking , though quite correct, was not the cause in my case : the fracture was a fatigue not a stress fracture

Post by **1954Etype** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:30 am

OK thanks guys - I now understand. Hadn't taken account of the fact of the amount of roll when cornering.

Echezeaux · Post by **Echezeaux** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:37 am

Alright, Gents, I have solved my problem.
I opened my shocks and fitted a 25mm spacer in them!
Now the full down stroke is 387mm.
Refitted on the car and everything is smooth!

Dave, I am glad that you checked yours too, and as GAZ can do them for you, the better.
The only " original " shocks I have are my old GIRLING, and I don't know who to ask for an original measurement ?
Maybe Harry from E-type UK, or CMC ?

Another item ticked on the evergoing list of work .

Thanks to all.
Thierry

steve3.8 · Post by **steve3.8** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:28 pm

I have a set of Gaz shocks front and rear new still in the boxes

Fronts are 306mm min length ---424mm max length.

I have measured same as Thierry the stationary laden length of the standard shocks that are on my car and get exactly the same 343mm

What concerns me now that with the Gaz shocks there is only 37mm of shock absorber travel left, at that they have a chance of bottoming out,which if they do will lead to massive problems ie cracked frames.

I don?t think I will be fitting them to my car !

PS Just to check the Gaz rears are 410-470mm travel,does anyone have any original shocks to compare

Steve

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:19 pm

Steve - don't take this as gospel but I think the limited "bump" distance left is probably not a problem. The rate of the torsion bar increases markedly as the deflection increases, and at the mid-laden position the bar is already very well loaded . The result is that i think the car would be bounced off the ground before you would transmit any load to the frames . The excess length, however, for all the reasons discussed above, does sound like a problem

Incidentally I thought that my original shockers which gave rise to my near catastrophe must have been for the wrong car, although when I bought them they were said to be for Es, but I am now beginning to wonder whether there are many which are manufactured with this inherent problem

Echezeaux · Post by **Echezeaux** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:13 am

Hi Steve,
I wouldn't worry too much about bottoming your shocks.
Once you have collapsed one shock by hand, you still have another 15mm to go due to the hard foam bump stop "stopping" the travel.

You can check your normal travel by removing the blue sleeve, just warm it up with a hot air gun and pull it straight up, and fitting a cable tie around the shaft,push it right down against the cylinder.
Drive the car like you stole it, and measure by how much the cable tie is separated from the cylinder, that would give you a good idea of the travel.
You can check it as well by going over a kerb, but maybe not at speed !!

About the rear adjustable platform GAZ that I have on the car. no problem.
I really like those shocks, for the possibilities they offer, and to adjust the E-type nose down a bit by lifting the rear.

Thierry

steve3.8 · Post by **steve3.8** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:13 am

To get a true reading of what the upper and lower travel of the original girling type shocks have, yesterday I did a test,as you can see i placed masking tape on the lower part of the shock and tie wrapped a bracket with marker pen on the upper?I then went for a 10 minute quick pace drive.

Results ----28mm lift ---38mm compression

Giving 305mm?371mm used shock length

Gaz 306mm---424mm usable shock length

Steve

daverawle · Post by **daverawle** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:03 pm

Good test Steve. I wonder if that max length of 371 mm is a function of the Girling damper or is it the maximum we're likely to see in normal use? It would be interesting to measure it off the car.

Dave

steve3.8 · Post by **steve3.8** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:48 pm

Dave

ive jacked the car up until both of the front wheels are off the ground and so the suspension is hanging on the shocks---the measurement is 395mm--which is similar to Thierry,

Steve

daverawle · Post by **daverawle** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:07 pm

Just received my shocks back from Gaz where they were shortened to 400mm. Total cost was ?47.59 inc VAT and shipping. There is no binding of the steering with the car jacked now and a test drive doesn't show any abnormalities. I just hope there's no steering damage caused by these incorrect dampers. I have emailed them about the hazard posed by overly long shocks; I'll post the reply, should I get one.

Dave

Larry Wade · Post by **Larry Wade** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:07 pm

FWIW: I just measured the extended length of my Boge shocks. Both measured 403 mm full extension.

Larry

daverawle · Post by **daverawle** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:20 pm

Sounds about right Larry. I took mine for its annual ministry test yesterday and with the front off the deck the tester was able to turn the steering lock to lock by lightly pulling on one of the road wheels. He recalled that he'd not been able to do that before and asked how I'd fixed it. I suspect if he gets an E-Type where he can't do that in future it isn't going to pass.

Dave (feeling much safer :))

daverawle · Post by **daverawle** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:51 pm

Well, I allowed a couple of weeks for a reply to my email to Gaz. They haven't bothered to reply so I take this as a sign of their disregard for our safety

I'm sure that the shocks you supply for 6 cylinder E-
Types are too long and the risk of fatality due to
steering tie rod fracture is high. I do not have an
original set of shocks to hand but I would be surprised
if they were longer than 400mm centre-to-centre of the
bolt holes.

If you need further details of the hazard of overly
long shocks on these cars I will be happy to provide
it.

I can only suggest that if you need new dampers you will be safer shopping elsewhere.

Dave

Echezeaux · Post by **Echezeaux** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:19 am

Yes me too, no reply to my Email either !
Maybe I should talk to SNG since I bought the shocks from them.
And by looking at quite a few other professional or not E-type restorations on the web, the problem seems to be wide spread, whatever the brand of shocks .

Thierry

Post by **mgcjag** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:23 am

Hi All......just finnished putting the suspension back together on my S2 2+2 & tried to connect the track rod ends, but cant get them to fit.....as per all the info above re the full drop of the shocks Im on new Boge, with a fully extended stop of 410mm cent/cent ....can the drop length be reduced so as not to strain the tie rods.Thanks.......Steve

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 pm

Guys, I am just experiencing this problem with the track rod ends supplied by SNGB . I have fitted Koni Classics. Can anyone confirm to me that Konis are too long for the suspension design? I do NOT want a tie or track rod failure, as do none of us. Whats the fix?

Post by **Heuer** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:02 pm

Never had a problem with Koni's on the front on either of my cars other than I prefer the standard Boge's.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:29 pm

ok thanks David. I have just measured them on the car and they are at 410mm which according to this thread are beyond the standard Girlings length and its not possible to fit the track rod ends into the steering arms. The Track rods are necking and the tie rod is also touching the edge of the steering rack. Not good. It may be that unless one is jumping hump back bridges it will be ok, but I don't like it

Post by **Heuer** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:56 pm

Never noticed a problem with my Koni's and I covered 44,000 miles with them on the front. Car has been serviced/suspension setup at both CMC and Ian Nuthall Racing and neither company mentioned there was a problem using Koni. I have now switched to Boge but can't do any measurements as I gave the Koni's to Angus. Have you tried different track rod ends - Quinton Hazel QR1178S?

This is what Dave Rawle found; original on left:

Please let us know how you get on because fitting Koni's appears to be de riguer despite the high price and the illusion of adjustability.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:50 pm

this is my set up with the Konis. I am still awaiting a response from SNGB so will report back what they say once they have considered the problem.

I still find it slightly strange that the shock absorbers carry the whole weight of the front suspension rather than some sort of bump stop. I lost 6 sets of shock absorbers on the Peking to Paris rally because the rear axle was only held from full travel by the top absorber mount which failed whenever we went airborne , which was quite a bit through Mongolia. Not the typical route for an E Type perhaps but does rather illustrate the force of gravity when a car becomes somewhat lighter.

it should be noted in the second photo that the tie rod is necking on the rack and the track rod is not able to be fixed into position. Not good.

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