Battery or Alternator or ?

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear All,
I never give up especialy with internet, please look at the below 2 links.

They clearly explain the role of each relay or regulator. The bulb is not the direct cause. Whilst maybe the best thing to test as indicated is to short the Regulator 4TR & see if the Alternator sends the 14volts if so then weve got it. I also check the 6RA Relay as indiccated.

http://www.coolcatcorp.com/faqs/Lucasalternators2.html

http://www.coolcatcorp.com/faqs/Lucasalternators3.html

Paul

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear All,
I checked as advised on the previous Links & it appears that the 6RA Relay is not working. It should read 12V from just ignition on & measured from F + on the Alternator but no Voltage. These problems could have come from the heat from the Oil Breather.

Below I found a Link for a Altenator Upgrade that allows a much more modern aproach to get the 14Volts.

http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator2.html

Not sure whats next most likely a cheap relay or wait for a expert to check even if seems quite straight forward.

What I still dont like is the huge Breather pipe & the state of the wire looms.

Paul

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear All,

You can see on the pictures the damage done & idea to fix again.
I really need to see how to it properly. The French Garage really messed I suppose.

http://cid-409d34c9142de6b9.photos.live ... e%20Damage

Paul

[JEP41]

Hi Paul,

I have a Lightweight copy of a series one OTS, the Lightweights use different cam covers. The exhaust side cam cover has a double vent mounted close to the bulkhead along with a crossover pipe to equalize the pressures if any in the inlet cam cover. It might be an idea to fit these cam covers to your car and do away with the big vent that has been fitted to your car. I have two standard size vents that come off the exhaust side cam cover and run down the exhaust side of the bulkhead into a neat alloy catch tank. Various companies offer these cam covers, my came from Dave Butcher who specializes in building only Racing Jaguar engines but Rob Beere will probably have them also or know who does, he is very approachable.
When the Lightweight cam covers are fitted the vent at the front of the cylinder head becomes obselete and is replaced by a flat circular plate approximately 1/4" thick which is just bolted on. 8)

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear John,
Wow your up late thinking of me,
I have a Alloy catch tank that was disconected due to the previous oil leaks. Its on the Right side mud guard, so the path must have been too tight or bad angle. Can the engin part be fixed to face the right side or exit
from the right rather than the left near alternator & wiring etc. Could you kindly send me Photos of your set up.

I am not a experienced mechanic as most of you so I can not do so much.

Most likely I will take an apointment this winter with E Type UK for a good
servicing & brush up rather than a camembert & wine mechanic.

Paul

[JEP41]

Hi Paul,

I was not up early I am on my ship in the South China Sea and we are 5 hours ahead of Europe.
I cannot show you a photo of my cam covers because Photobucket is blocked by the ships owner. I will send via e-mail.
In answer to your question regarding position of the vent at the front of the cylinder head, you can position it to run the pipe either side, the exhaust side as yours is at present or the inlet side. I thought on the standard car they were routed to the carburettors intakes originally by Jaguar, or this may have been on later cars I am not so familar with a standard car :?

[christopher storey]

Paul ; it sounds as though you have found the problem with a defective relay. Make sure you get the 6RA relay for an alternator as they are also used for other circuits and are slightly different . John is correct when he says that the original route for the oil vent was to the right hand side. It normally plugs into a vent attached to the carburettor trumpet plate which is missing from your car because you have the pancake filters, but there is no reason why it should not be attached to the catch bottle on the right hand side, and it would not get as hot because it would be shielded from the exhaust

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear John & Christopher,

I Borrowed a Lucas 6RA just now & will try it as soon as possible.
On the other hand I am not sure if I can manage to change the Breather pipe to the other side myself. I dont want to over do it with my limitations.

So I suppose the previous owner put the oil breather canister on right side but put the fixing towards the left side which caused the problem.

Come to Paris to Help Me, I am a Good Cook & know Wine & Cheese if you like it.

Paul

[Heuer]

Paul

My breather vents to the road, the oil trap only being a requirement on a race track. As my engine has been 'optimised' somewhat I have a twin breather arrangement as you can see here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=227 The twin pipes ensure that there is no excess pressure which can lead to premature crank seal failure. As others have said the breather pipe should not get hot enough to melt plastic.

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear David,
Thks for the photos again as you sent before but I could not find on the forum. It seems one of your pipes goes in a semi circle top the exit or fixed location. So maybe I can try & change the pipe again & take it back to the right & see what happens. It could be that the Exhaust mainfold makes it so hot. As I am getting 40 Oil pressure after a good warm up & never more than 50 then the oil pressure is OK ? If the breather was not operating well in the Future I suppose the oilm pressure would be different before damaging something as you mentioned ?

Paul

[Heuer]

Paul

This has nothing to do with oil pressure as measured by pumping the oil through the engine galleries and indicated by the gauge. As engine oil gets hot and is thrown around the internals some of it vapourises and the resultant gases are drawn out under vacuum to the inlet manifold (on a standard car) to be burnt with the fuel. This needs to be done otherwise there will be a build up of gaseous pressure which can cause back pressure resulting in oil leaks. Try putting some hot water in a cocktail shaker, closing the lid and shaking it and you will get the idea. Thankfully not a problem with an ice cold Martini!

In reality there is no need to draw the oil vapour off under vacuum so a simple vent will work fine. If the performance of the engine is increased though the standard vent pipe cannot cope with the gas volume at high revs so a second pipe is added, as seen on the Lightweight car engines.

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear David,

I would have expected that VSE would receomend or fit as std the double output with 02 spec. I am not so keen to have the Job done in France as yours looks perfect. How can I judge if theirs a problem other than the heat on the pipe. I normally dont drive more than a hour at a time also due to the Relay or non charging at current. I am going to see how to get a pipe on the right side but free falling as the alloy container has I think a horizontal input which maybe too much to ask.

Paul

[Heuer]

VSE retain the original single outlet plenum on their 02 engine perhaps expecting people to use the standard vacuum assisted vapour extraction. It was CMC who recommended, supplied and fitted the twin outlet after the rear crank seal failed - preventative maintenance.

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear David,

Thks for the precious advice, I need to see how to do as now I am worried. Can you confirm the diameter of your pipe as maybe they are smaller than mine. I think the French Camembert mechanic fitted a much wider one & discared the origional. May I ask why Cmc & not E Type UK for servicing.

Paul

[Heuer]

Paul

Pipe is standard 3.8 1" corrugated metal foil stuff (C2485/1). If your car is a 4.2 then I would expect your breather housing to vent to the right hand side:


You will see the housing includes a sediment trap - un-numbered casting in diagram - (which itself can become blocked and needs to be checked every now and again - cheaper than a crank seal!)

If your pipe is exiting to the left then it is a 3.8 system:


I use CMC because they are only an hour away on open roads. To get to E-Type UK would take me three hours with all the aggravation of the M25 and Dartford crossing. I would love to take the car to Harry but two 350 mile round trips with my wife following in her car is a bit too much to ask!

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear David,
I went for a 1 Hour ride tonight & the Breather was hot but as much that I could not touch it. It is on the Left hand side so I have a 3.8 Breather on a 4.2 Engine. The design & fittings are as your diagram you kindly sent. Why could that be ? From my poor idea it seems the 3.8 has a more direct out put ? You can confirm in the pics below. I hope to change the relay tomorrow but I need time as battery must be removed & done slowly.

http://cid-409d34c9142de6b9.photos.live ... ?nl=1&uc=6

Paul

[Heuer]

Paul

You seem to have a 3.8 breather system. Not a problem as you are not using vacuum extraction. Either vent the pipe to the left/right or use the tank if you want to be environmentally friendly. Nothing to worry about though.

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear David,
Thks for the quick check, I am not that enviroment friendly with the noise of the exhaust & seems to be thumbs up all the time, it only gives some small drops on the garage tray. I think for the Double Breather I will wait for the Winter service or Spring service at most likely E Type Uk as closer to me & I am very grateful to host the forum. Best to leave the car with them & see what needs or could be done without over doing it in the first year.
Thks for everything
Paul

[Echezeaux]

Bonjour Paul,

I do not know where you live in Paris, but I know someone in Pourrain 89, Dpt L'Yonne, Rene Sontrop, Jaguar specialist and really well known in historic racing.
I visited him recently during some time off in France, nice man, clean workshop packed with cars, and he owns a nice semi-lightweight E-type.

His address :
Rene.Sontrop@sfr.fr
Les vernes 89240 Pourrain
Tel 86 41 02 04 - fax 86 41 03 99

A call costs nothing .

Au revoir.
Thierry

[PAUL MORRIS]

Dear All,
I took most of the Day off with some mates whom work with at Mitsubishi Electric Auto parts dpt specialised in all Car electronics. We checked again every component managed to get each Realy or regultaor working but only with a direct battery connection. We just cant get the voltage around the parts with the current Loom in place. Also in the dashboard under the wheel we found a spare wire with 12Volts on it. We also shorted the ignition bulb which does not light but not blown to check no success. They tried every combination possible it seems. Following 4 hours of sweating & no lunch I gave them a Drive each & they Loved it. For me to see the car from the road is fantastic. So finally the Alternator is Ok, Relay ok, Regulator ok but when hooked up no 12v so no charging. The car is under a 1 Year warranty so maybe it can be fixed free in the near future. As for the Breather connection it does not look it can be changed to the right side. It does not have a inner rubber part as the one I saw before so thats maybe why it got hotter. I could fit the origional clean one & keep on the Left. Last night 1 hour driving needed 1 hour of slow charging to recover.
Paul