Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

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FHCINSC
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#1 Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by FHCINSC » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:22 am

Well it’s been very adventurous...this vehicle.
Had coffee today and upon leaving, I started the car and the starter never disengaged. Made horrible noises. I finally had to stall the car. I thought that stopped it but when I took my foot off the brake the starter was trying to lunge the car into the wall in front of us. I could not get it to stop trying to start the car. I left the car in neutral and finally pulled the wires at the starter relay until it stopped.

I was able to reattach the relay wire for a moment to start the car and then I drove home with the white/red wire disconnected from the relay.

Now that I’m home I got out the meter and observed this:

Inserting some need to know info here:

My key has been hot after driving lately so I’m already suspicious of the ignition switch.

My rad fans are currently wired to run when the ignition is switched to the first position. I’m installing an otter switch and relay to resolve this. I can’t help but wonder if this is adding to the ignition switch heat problem.

The brown wire at the relay is 12 volts all the time. For whatever reason it has both a male and female post on the brown wire. It’s as it it is offering you the opportunity to give another item constant 12 volts.

The white/red wire is .25 V when you turn the key to the 1st position and it stays that way until you turn off the key.

The white/yellow wire goes to 12 volts when twist the key to start the car and it goes back to 0 when you release the key.

From what I’m reading the wires and switch are doing what they are supposed to? Would this mean my problem is the relay?

I love the car but I have the distinct feeling it wants to kill
me.

Thanks,
Anthony

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288gto
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#2 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by 288gto » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:41 am

Hi Anthony,

Two possibilities.

1. Faulty ignition switch now supplying permanent live to the primary circuit side of the relay.

2. Faulty relay where the secondary circuit of the relay is in permanent contact. Sometimes the terminals inside the relay weld themselves together.

I’m assuming the fan wiring you mention uses the ignition switch to operate a relay rather than the current for the fan going through the ignition switch? If not, that is probably why the ignition switch is getting hot.

Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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Heuer
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#3 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by Heuer » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:58 am

Faulty ignition switch. Known problem when your ignition key starts to get hot.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red
2024 Lexus LBX

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AshM
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#4 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by AshM » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:08 pm

Anthony

That double terminal on the Brown feed is not on my (newly re-wired) loom.

Cheers
Ash
Series 2 FHC 1970
1R 20607

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FHCINSC
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#5 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by FHCINSC » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:01 pm

Mike at Coolcats suggested I try this test and...it failed! What’s really interesting is 30 minutes later it was fine.
Another junk quality reproduction part I guess.

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#6 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by FHCINSC » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:49 am

Replacement parts have arrived.
2 questions if you don’t mind.

Has anyone used this particular gear reduction starter? Do I need to be worried about using some type of spacer?

This relay is not the same relay as the one I posted above (the one that is faulty). Will this new relay work as a starter relay for this gear reduction starter?

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Thanks all
Anthony

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mgcjag
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#7 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by mgcjag » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:49 am

Hi Anthony...re the spacer.....the best thing to do is take some measurements from the face of the bellhousing to the teeth on the flywheel......then measure your starter..from its face to the gear...with it moved out to the engage position.....Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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Tom W
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#8 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by Tom W » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:17 am

What was the original relay? All the Lucas 6RA relays look superficially similar from the outside, but have differing pin layouts and internal circuits depending on their intended functions.
Tom
1970 S2 FHC

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mgcjag
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#9 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by mgcjag » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:33 am

On the lable it does say its a starter relay
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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Series1 Stu
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#10 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by Series1 Stu » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:24 am

mgcjag wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:33 am
On the lable it does say its a starter relay
Yes, but what worries me is that it's only 20 Amp rated. Surely that isn't high enough for a starter motor on a 4.2 litre engine?

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'93 Jaguar X300 XJR basket case
'93 Audi 80 quatrro Sport

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#11 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by mgcjag » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:38 am

Hi Stuart..the relay is only operating the starter solonoid...the solonoid then pulls in the starter....Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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Series1 Stu
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#12 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by Series1 Stu » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:46 am

OK, I get it. Although I would have thought that the solenoid would have been higher rated than the relay. Still, it probably reduces the current through the ignition switch, which is always a good thing to do.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'93 Jaguar X300 XJR basket case
'93 Audi 80 quatrro Sport

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FHCINSC
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#13 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by FHCINSC » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:15 pm

Thanks All!
Here’s the bad relay. Frustrating that it appears brand new.

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#14 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by Tom W » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:38 pm

The 6RA relay in the charging circuit was new when I got my car, and that’s the only one that’s given problems so far. All the originals have been fine.
Tom
1970 S2 FHC

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#15 Re: Starter tried hard to run the car into a wall.

Post by FHCINSC » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:13 pm

I’d say I found out why the ignition switch was hot. Shaking my head.

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