Loose wheel???

[andrewh]

Just repeating what I said on this thread a few years ago - just shave an amount off the end of the splined hub so the spinner will tighten up hard on the wheel and not bottom out - its not rocket science !
Saying that I would carefully measure an original hub, wheel, spinner to see where the blame lies. Using all repro can be problematic as we all know...

Barrie

Thanks Barrie. I tend to think the spinners are not locking the wheel correctly before it locks up, but its pretty hard to fathom out. I have just put my old spinners on again and two wheels have locked up ok. I am not about to start machining the front of my "new" hubs especially as they are fitted to the car. I shall wait on what Orson say about the problem

[andrewh]

Thanks David. Oh dear me, what a mess up. If it really is as dire as you outline then there is little hope of getting it sorted. I have sent my spinners to Orson for them to check the dimensions. There has been strange chaffing on the rear cone which would be symptomatic of the male and female not sitting square and tight against each other. If I hold an original spinner on the nose of an original wheel, they sit correctly with each other. Using an MWS 6 in curly hub and an Orson reproduction spinner they dont feel comfortable together . Its almost like they are just not right for each other. Maybe it is the rear cone not matching the hubs. What really winds me up is the fact that no supplier is prepared to acknowledge an issue hiding behind the fact that hey have sold hundreds. I am getting to a point where I will take the car up to MWS and let them see the issue. MWS did tell me that they no longer sell Orson spinners and manufacture their own. Whether this was code for Orsons dont work so we make our own is anyones guess. I suppose I could buy a set of MWS spinners and go trial and error.

I shall report back on my further findings. I am amazed that nobody else has experienced this wheel wobble.

[tinworm]

I have experienced it - but it was with original parts - there said it - heresy ! If you take a rear wheel off and run on a repro spinner until it seats give it a couple of smacks with your hide mallet - then measure how far the back edge is from the top edge of the taper . Do that for an original spinner and you may or may not find a discrepancy - its somewhere to start anyway. I have some original hubs and spinners here off the car if you want a measurement or two. It should be easy to track down....

Barrie

[andrewh]

yes I already did that. Without a wheel on the car the Original spinner goes a further 2.8mm towards the rear taper than an Orson one. Whether its bottoming out before tightening up is hard to tell once the wheel is on and therefore in the way. I am beginning to think , as said above, its a combination of a lot of incompatible reproduction parts all working together to cause a problem. Wheels, hubs and spinners. The only non reproduction part which is absolutely not to blame is me!

[mgcjag]

If you want to know how the tapers are mating or if the spinners are bottoming out then use a touch of paint....Steve

[Heuer]

As far as I know MWS no longer make spinners. They used to and they were more accurately engraved than the Orson ones. The spinners on their web site are Orson. Suggest you grab those eBay rechromed spinners off eBay for £190 and get your money back from Orson. At least with original spinners you will be better placed to argue, sorry, discuss with MWS.

[mgcjag]

Hi David...do Orson spinners have a makers mark....thanks....Steve

[Heuer]

No and they are not made of manganese bronze. IIRC they are brass.

https://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?p=36206#p36206

[Gfhug]

David, in post 40 you say Orson got the S2 spinners correct, yet I experienced the problem of them not seeming to go tight enough, changed to a re-chromed set of OE S2 spinners and problem solved

Geoff

[Heuer]

Sorry Geoff, I meant to say the S2 spinners are cosmetically correct. I have never researched the goodness of fit but your experience is most useful and clearly another fail from Orson!

[steve3.8]

As my car is currently in part dismantled limbo--engine out , here are some measurements Andrew to compare with and hopefully help solve the issue.
If i were to guess , i would say the wheel hub outer cone to be in question as i would expect the cnc spinner machinng in the UK to be ok.
Engineers blue is your friend to finding out what is happening.
-ENGINEERS-MARKING-Bhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TUBE-OF-STUARTS-MICR ... Swa8dZ1R5q

My wheels are original ,the hubs are OE, the spinners Made in england.

The splined hub measures 93mm deep from the rear cone angle , when the wheel is fitted it protrudes out 10mm

Holding the spinner on the wheel it measures approx 102mm from the rear cone to the spinner recess
102- 93 =9 ---in theory that gives 9mm clearance before the thread bottoms out in the spinner, thus ruling out any chance of the thread bottoming out even on the shallow 27mm recess spinners. Plasticine squashed to show a 7mm gap when the spinner was tightened.

The spinner thread recess is 27mm deep.
The spinner outer recess for the cone angle is cut 16mm deep- only 10mm is used as witnessed by engineers blue on the wheel cone .Note the last 2 threads are clean , at 8 TPI thats approx the 7mm gap.


The wheel hub measurement
Inner cone larger diameter 87.5

Overall depth of the hub to inner cone


Hope this is of some help

[andrewh]

thanks Steve. that's good of you to go to all that trouble. I will get measuring. Meanwhile I am using my old spinners to lock up the wheels. I have new tyres being fitted and then will take it for a run and see whether the wheels remain tight. I have reached the point where they have been tight when fitted before, but then seem to get loose again. It does seem to me that it would be unlikely the new spinners run out of thread before locking up the wheel. If there is a problem I would tend to agree with you that it could be issues between the rear cone and hub seating. I have certainly some strange marking on the wheel which looks like some sort of chaffing. Interestingly that having checked with MWS who say the tapers should be fitted dry, an original guide from Rudge recommends grease with some graphite on the cones suggesting some need to bed them in together perhaps.

[steve3.8]

That's ok Andrew, it did prompt me to check mine even though i've never had any problems,, i think it's in everyone's best interest to check theirs.Rightly or wrongly i have always lightly copper slipped the splines and cones.
If your wheel outer cone is too small it may be possible to bottom the thread, likewise if the spinner cone diameter is too big.
If you could load a photo of the wheel outer cone where the spinner seats it could show whats occurring

[JerryL770]

I had a thread on here (I'm sure) on this very subject, which I cannot find now, even searching my own posts?? I have repro spinners. Now I have some originals to refurbish

EDIT: Found my thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14250&p=116093#p116093

However, in my investigations, what I did was count the number of turns of the spinner which was needed to engage the thread to fully tightened. Then I took the wheel off and screwed the spinner on till it bottomed out. It went on at least 1½ turns more.

So the problem should not be with the spinner thread. (Perhaps originals won't help now?? )