S2 2+2 and S3 Car Window Regulator

[angelw]

Calling Colin Low, or anyone else that may have the door card removed, or willing to remove it.

Hello Colin,
Do you still have the door cards off of your doors, but with the remainder assembled? If so, please refer to the two following pictures and would you be so kind as to determine which assembly relates to how your Window Regulator is installed. The pictures show the Window Regulators superimposed on the outside of the door to give a better idea of how the assembly's components relate to other parts inside the door. The configuration of the Window Regulator can easily be determined by:

1. Wind the Window up.

2. Reach inside the door frame near where the bracket with the four threaded studs attached to the door and by feel, determine if the bracket is on the inside of the parallelogram, as shown in the picture immediately following, or on the outside as shown in the second picture below.






The piece of masking tape, labeled Damper Standoff, shown in the two pictures above, displays the location and approximate plan size of the Vibration Damper Bracket that's pop riveted to the inside of S2 2+2 and all S3 Cars. The Vibration Damper Bracket protrudes approximately 25mm from the inside face of the door shell and the guide, through which the Inside Door Latch remote bar runs, stand a further 10mm away from the inside face of the door shell.

The top (first) picture, shows that the lower, horizontal bar runs straight across where the Vibration Damper Bracket and Door Latch Remote Bar is located and interferes with it profoundly. The following picture shows interference of the short rear member when the Window Regulator is installed as per the Top picture and with the Window not quite wound up. When the Window is wound up, the lower, horizontal member interferes with the Vibration Damper Bracket. You will note from the following picture that the bracket with the four threaded studs in nowhere near being flush with the inside of the door shell (as it should be), yet components of the Window Regulator assembly are already interfering with the Vibration Damper Bracket



In the picture second from the top, where the Window Regulator is configured with the the four threaded stud bracket on the outside of the parallelogram, the components of the assembly are well clear of the Vibration Damper Bracket, and the area indicated by the Red Ellipse comes no closer to the Vibration Damper Bracket as the Window is wound down.

The very top picture shows a Window Regulator identified as a LH assembly via the Part Number, BD32617 being matched with a LH Door. Its my contention that its impossible to assemble this configuration of Window Regulator in a LH Door due to the interference with the Vibration Damper Bracket and Guide.

The picture second from the top shows a Window Regulator identified as a RH assembly via the Part Number, BD32616 being matched with a LH Door. Its my contention that this is the correct Window Regulator configuration to assemble with a LH, as the components that interfere with the Vibration Damper Bracket and Guide when the Window Regulator is configured as per the Top picture, are well clear when configured as per the second from top picture.

S1 2+2 cars are different, because the Inside Door Latch remote bar is on the outside of the door shell and therefore, there is no Vibration Damper Bracket and Guide for the Window Regulator to interfere with. Accordingly, both Window Regulator configurations will work with an S1 2+2.

Regards,

Bill

[RTaillieu]

This is from the Series 3 Parts book.

Rick

[lowact]

Hello Bill, my LH is exactly as per yr 2nd pic. RH is mirror image

LH looking rearwards


RH looking rearwards:


RH looking forwards:

[angelw]

Rick Wrote:

This is from the Series 3 Parts book.

I'm aware of the parts book picture and its wrong.
The following picture is a close up of the winding mechanism extracted from the same page of my copy of the same book you're referring to.



You will note that the tail of the scroll spring is tethered at the Top of the Lug. With this arrangement, the scroll spring will be more tightly scrolled as the window is wound up. This scenario is completely illogical, for the winding mechanism would be fighting both the spring and the weight of the window.

The purpose of the spring is to help compensate for the weight of the window as its wound up and to resist the tendency of the window falling down once it’s been wound up.

In all cases, left and right window regulator assemblies, the tail of the spring should be tethered at the bottom of the lug. In this scenario, the spring is further scrolled as the window is wound down, with the energy stored in the spring assisting in winding the window up and resists the tendency for it to fall down.

If you were to flip the image of the Window Regulator shown in the parts book page you Posted, around its long axis, the tail of the spring would be tethered at the bottom of the lug (where it should be) and it would be a Left Hand assembly in the window down position, also as it should be.

You may say that whoever did the drawing got the spring wrong and drew it upside down. I would go along with that, except for the fact that its impossible to install the Window Regulator as depicted in your picture in a RH door.

@ lowact

Thanks Colin for taking the time to check that out. The configurations of your Window Regulators are the only way they can be installed if the Vibration Damper Brackets have not been removed; and why would anyone do that. The purpose of the Vibration Damper is to stop the remote bar of the internal door latch from rattling, particularly as the door is closed.

I’ve inspected 14 LBW S2 and S3 cars and all but one had the Window Regulators installed as yours are and as displayed in the second from top picture in my previous Post. The odd one out was the light blue metallic S2 2+2 that you saw in my workshop. This car had been completely restored (cough) elsewhere and brought to me to check it over mechanically before going for a Road Worthy Test. I’m now doing it again properly, with new sill, both sides, complete floors, both sides; new foot well closing panels, both sides and the list goes on. When I checked the configuration of the Window Regulators, they had been installed as per the Top picture in my previous Post and as shown in the parts book drawing Posted by Rick. The reason for the Window Regulators being installed in that way, was because the Vibration Dampers had been removed and the Window Regulators installed in the wrong doors by the numb nut that did the previous work on the car. What makes me say the Window Regulators were installed in the wrong doors? The tail of the scroll spring was tethered at the top of the lug and it would have been impossible to install Window Regulators as they had been if the Vibration Damper Brackets had not been removed.

Regards,

Bill

[angelw]

Hello All,
I should explain the reason for requesting the check on the configuration of the Window Regulators in LWB S2 and S3 cars.

The part numbers BD32616 and BD32617 are indeed the part numbers for R and and LH Window Regulators respectively and I've seen a NOS BD32616 (RH) unit that still had the British Leyland parts sticker attached. This part was configured the same as that shown in the parts book drawing posted by Rick, except that the tail of the scroll spring was tethered to the bottom of the lug, as it should for a RH assembly.

The problem with purchasing such a part for installation in a RH Door, is that its impossible to fit unless the Vibration Damper Bracket is omitted. Its my opinion, the part designation is a carry over from the S1 2+2, where the remote bar for the internal door latch is on the outside of the door shell and therefore, there is no Vibration Damper Bracket and Guide inside the shell for the Window Regulator to interfere with. Clearly Jaguar identified the issue and all S2 LWB and S3 cars have the Window Regulators installed configured as shown in the 2nd Top picture of my first Post, but they didn't change the parts number specification. Therefore, a BD32617 (LH) part is actually the correct part for a RH door and a BD32616 (RH) correct for a LH door.

Just about all S1 2+2 cars I've seen, have the Window Regulator configured as shown in the Top picture of my first Post and in an S1 car, the Window Regulator works equally well installed as shown in either of the first two pictures of my first Post. This is not the case with S2 LWB and S3 cars; the Window Regulator can only be installed as per the configuration shown in the 2nd Top picture of my first Post and how they have been installed in Colin's (aka lowact) doors. Accordingly, to avoid much frustration, if you need to replace one only Window Regulator of your S2 2+2, or S3 car, order the part designated opposite to the one being replaced, ie. a BD32617 for RH and BD32616 for LH. You will then have to change the scroll spring around so that the tail tethers at the bottom of the lug (not difficult to do).



Regards,

Bill

[Tarasques]

Thank you for the detailed explanation of the Car Window Regulator. About a year ago I bought an old Mercedes. I like to do his restoration. After a while, I had to start installing the inner panel on the door, but I noticed that the window lifter mechanism was broken. I'll have to do double work. In addition, I want to install the best baby car sun shade for family so that it is more comfortable to drive in sunny weather in summer. Do you think it's worth fixing a new mechanism or trying to fix an old one? I do not yet know the shops where you can buy this spare part.