Anti Roll Bar Rubbers - falling out ?

[rfs1957]

Anyone else had problems with the roll-bar rubber silentbloc bushings being too slack in the dog-bones ?

After just 20km one of my top front ones slipped out, leaving the top of the dog-bone waving in the air.



I had the bolts through the other way, with the nut and washer against the roll-bar rather than against the dog-bone, not like the picture as I've now refitted them.



I had a packet of 4 new ones, both the ones on the car and these spares will have been from SNGB, and they all look the same.

But re-fitting it required just a squeeze with an adjustable pipe-wrench, in-situ on the car, whereas it seems to me I used to have to fit these with a small press or at the very least with careful use of spacers and a long bolt as a puller.

As things now stand, the dog-bones are going to slide one way until they hit the roll-bar, or the other way until they hit the washer - and I'm not even sure that's bigger than the bore of the dog-bone.

Anyone else had this, and what did you do ?

As things stand, of course, there's nothing to stop the bottom ones sliding out as well ......

Now I think about it, I would have tightened these on full-droop ; maybe it would help if they were tightened at mid-height, like the wishbone pivots ?

[Gfhug]

Rory, I had a similar problem on the front suspension, I think on the drop links from the roll bar and it was solved by fitting larger (penny) washers to stop the rubbers slipping out.
Angus’s man noticed it after A and I had been for a drive. But it was a few years ago and the exact details are a distant memory (like wot I had for dinner)

Geoff

[abowie]

fitting larger (penny) washers to stop the rubbers slipping out.

Geoff

Geoff is absolutely correct. The washer has to be both bigger than the hole in the drop link and also 1/8" thick.

[rfs1957]

Surely, if the design required lateral retention in this way there would be a washer on either side of the bush, otherwise you end up with contact with the roll-bar ends if the slippage goes the other way.

This reasoning is identical for both front and rear suspensions.

Originally there is one washer per bushing, FW.107/T, which as far as I can ascertain is a normal 7/16 washer with an OD that is marginally smaller even than the bore of the dog-bone.

Perhaps the reason that people are being reduced to using penny washers is because the bushes they're using are just a sliding fit, whereas the original rubbers required fitting either with recourse to suitable sleeves and spacers together, with a pinch-bolt to drag them into place, or to a light-weight bench press, and the factory even exhorted the use of soapy water to grease the operation.



I remember this being a tricky operation.

Even the non-poly cheapo rubber bushes I've just ordered from SNGB are an easy sliding fit, and I've been reduced to fitting them with a smear of black PU glue in the hope they'll stay in place.

This is just wrong, and it's because - yet again - we're being sold crap parts.

The ones I've got on the back have been there 10 years and they have never deviated, and there are no penny washers.

I've now tried 2 of the 4 options being listed by SNGB, at both ends of the price spectrum, and neither are correct.

If anyone else has had more luck I'd be delighted to hear where you got them from.

[abowie]

I've stripped a number of E types over the years for full restos, and I'm pretty sure that there is a thick washer bigger in diameter than the hole in the drop link under all 4 nuts. If I had to guess they are 1" diameter and 1/8" thick.

There is a similar washer on the rear drop links.

When we did restos we sent all the fasteners for one car off separately for plating and reused them all. So the whole car's worth of fasteners stayed together.

We refitted those same washers and there's not really any other washer similar on the car, so I'm convinced they were supposed to be there.

There is no need for a washer on the side next to either the anti sway bar or the wishbone as the bush can't come out that side as the bar/wishbone prevents it.

[rfs1957]

There is no need for a washer on the side next to either the anti sway bar or the wishbone as the bush can't come out that side as the bar/wishbone prevents it.

Engineers don't rely on incidental or eventual mechanical contact to keep an assembly in place.

Given the potential for graunching noises, as Jaguar strove to keep everything as quiet and supple as possible we can rule out that being a deliberate design feature.

And if the bushes are a tight fit in the dog-bones, the system works without any props.

The original pictures from our Series 1 Factory Fit would seem to confirm the relatively modest dimensions of the washers - though in point of fact, it only needs for them to be 23mm in diameter for them to act as a stop.







However, in the Series 2 Factory Fit there are pictures that suggest Andrew may be right.

Yet the part number is still FW.107/T - can anyone say with certitude what size that OD should be ?





Either way, bushes that fit properly mean you don't need to rely on either a washer at one end, or on the roll-bar at the other, to keep everything in line.

I've got Julian Barratt interested in this, so watch this space.

[Gfhug]

FW107T according to SNGB’s catalogue has an OD of 22mm and a thickness of 1.2mm. Though the catalogue page 89 lists the front one as “special washer” FW206T which has same id and od but is 1.8mm thick.
The cat shows FW107 for the rear and FW207T “special washer” for the front.
Anyway at 22mm od that’s just about the same od as the bushes

All I can add is that I had used standard washers on the front and the bush was able to slip out and on Angus’s advice the larger od washers were needed to stop this happening.

Geoff

[rfs1957]

Unless I'm mistaken, my reading of both the S1 and S2 part numbers - where both are grouped under the "Link - Antirollbar" component - is that both front and rear washers were FW.107/T.

Can you show me where you read differently, Geoff ?

SNGB confirm that FW.107/T is a Table 3 washer with an OD of 7/8" or 22.20mm - which is small enough to just pass through the eyes on the link, or at best get slightly jammed, on my car, and certainly was not designed to provide any positive lateral security.

I have to confess that I haven't measured the exact bore of the links on my car, as I was too excited by re-fitting (well, gluing) the latest round of bushes.

Anyone got some lying around ?

[Gfhug]

Rory, rear links are 22 mm. Above I referred to P89 of my version of the SNGB catalogue where I saw FW207T and this should show it on their website as item 20:
https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#/uk ... mbly/21932

I agree the OD would just about jam in the link rather than be a larger diameter to properly prevent slipping through. Your adhesive or larger penny washers will hopefully solve the problem for everyone to choose.

Regards

Geoff

[rfs1957]

Wonder if that's a typo, the 207 instead of 107 in the S2 part of SNGB ?

The original Jaguar parts books (in the KB) show 107 for both S1 and S2.

[rfs1957]

There are two versions of the S2 parts book, apparently ?

One - visible in the KB - shows the 7/8" washer FW.107/T, and the other, via my SNGB interlocutor, the 1" washer FW.207/T.

There is also a S3 variant where the bushes were shouldered.



SNGB accept that this is a part that requires some attention, so I'll update this post as and when I get news of the initiatives they are taking.

[Heuer]

There is the S2 Factory Spare Parts Catalogue and the S2 Illustrated Parts Catalogue produced by XKEbooks which is based on the former with bespoke drawings. I have a copy and here are the relevant sections:

[Gfhug]

That’s very interesting that FW207T is shown as a Bevelled washer, whereas Barratt’s have it as a plain washer.
Does that catalogue have dimensions shown?

Thanks
Geoff

[mgcjag]

Geoff....SNGB catalogue and part numbers are not acurate..neither is their description of items...they are good as a reference....Steve

[david muir]

googled 'Jaguar washer FW207T' and came up with a clear picture.

[mgcjag]

Have look here it shows an old stock part and clearly shows the bevel edge https://www.bpclassics-carparts.nl/prod ... nch-fw207t
FW207T is also shown in the parts catalogue(knowledge base) as the round washer under the acorn head stud nuts

[Heuer]

Bevelled washer FW207T

[Gfhug]

As it is a 7/16th washer, it looks like the OD is greater than twice the ID, so OD about one inch? Which would stop the bush sliding out. Curiouser and curiouser.

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Ok...FW207T in situe on an XK head...note these are machined washers and not stamped....best measurement i could get in situ 1.015in Steve

[abowie]

All the ones I've seen have been flat, not bevelled. But you could certainly use that head washer it would work.

The hole in the drop link is 7/8" so the washer would need to be bigger than that.