I have a target- own an e-type before 30

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richard1889
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#1 I have a target- own an e-type before 30

Post by richard1889 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:56 pm

The etype has been my dream car since one drove past me as a small boy

Finished uni, have a good job and now setting myself a target of owning an etype before 30.

have you guys and girls got any pointers apart from saving?

currently own a 1971 mini clubman which i have restored but it was hard work and should imagine an etype is even more difficult.

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MarkE
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#2

Post by MarkE » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:27 pm

Hi Richard?what a fine ambition!

I?ve always felt that if you can restore a Mini, you can restore anything. Most of us started out on Minis or something similar, and I spent my first two years in 6th form restoring a Cooper S, bought for ?25! My 3rd year was doing re-sits because I?d spent too much time doing the Mini. By the time I was at the end of 2nd year in college, I was on my 10th car, which was a Lotus Elan which I still have 35 years later.

And that really is a way to speed up getting an E Type?buy up a car with faults and fix them, sell it on for a bit of profit and buy a slightly better car with a few problems?..etc. It?s exactly how I ended up with the Elan when I was 20?.but I did get a crap degree! The upside is that not only can you make a few bob, but build up your skills as well.

There is a fair bit more to an E Type than a Mini, but really, that?s just more hours than more skills required. The bodywork is fairly daunting, and you need pretty good panel skills to sort one out.

You can still get a good E type needing a bit of TLC for ?10k ish?.it will be a Plus 2. For me the bargain E Type is the S3 2+2 with the V12 engine, which people are put off because of fuel consumption. But you can convert them to fuel injection from an XJS for very little money and they then do 25mpg and more?.just need some skills and an old XJS, and you can buy an XJS with a good engine for the value of the scrap??150 or so.

Lots of options, it just depends on how much you want to graft, and what facilities you may have, which could make things a lot easier.

Mark

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#3

Post by SteveG » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:03 pm

Hi Richard,

As a newbie myself I have to agree with Mark, Minis are a fine grounding, despite their fairly simple mechanics the bodywork is both time consuming and full of rust traps.

Like you I have always wanted an E, and am just in the process of realising that dream albeit at a greater age than you and yours. I have purchased a Series 1, 2+2 for restoration that has been off the road for a number of years but believe they offer a fine introduction into the world of E-Type ownership. Purists prefer the FHC or OTS but the ease of access and flexibility that comes with the larger car is in my opinion unparalleled.

My advice would be to keep sight of the dream and use the intervening time to carry out as much research as possible on the car, forums like this and the plentiful reading material available are a great way of doing this. Unfortunately I spent too many years and much money doing other things like learning to fly to realise my dream any earlier, but stick with it, they really are a fantastic piece of motoring history. :D
Steve - 1966 2+2 1E50101 slow restoration

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#4

Post by vee12eman » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:27 pm

Welcome Richard,

Well, it seems like you have set out on the very course I undertook, save that for me it was a Minivan to begin with. I moved on to a collection of Triumphs before finally finding an E-Type I could afford! The skills learned along the way were very helpful, but if I could, I would have learned more about panel beating, lead loading and spray painting.

Lots of good books out there, you could try buying them - the best is undoubtedly Chris Rooke's book, which should still be available, but snap it up quickly as they have been popular and E-type books have a habit of going out of print.

Have a look on the net - there are some really inspirational restoration stories out there - which have the advantage of being free!

Look at XKE data:

http://www.xkedata.com

There is a links page with many of the best restorations on there.

Good luck and keep focussed on the dream!

Regards,
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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#5

Post by christopher storey » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:43 pm

Did your minivan have a mattress in the back ? This was essential equipment in my day

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#6

Post by vee12eman » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:28 pm

Nah,

I was in the RAF at the time, still on L Plates and the car seemed to be the main transport to the pub. On a few occasions, the full licence holder required for legal reasons was actually in the back, once he was asleep (well, passed out omre accurately!).

I couldn't go out by myself withouth a qualified driver, but somehow convinced myself that all the above was legal(!), but wouldn't go out alone (definitely illegal!). I tend to find that having 4-5 drunken airmen (trainees all of us) in the back of the van was not inducive to romantic moods, so the mattress was not really required! When I passed my test, I sold the van and bought a Spitfire - I managed to pick up the ladies in that, but by now I had graduated to my own room - with a proper bed! Good job because I am not a contortionist, which I would have had to be in a Spitfire!

Memories!
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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#7

Post by richard1889 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:52 pm

Cheers guys
?10k for a good etype that needs TLC is better than i thought. Haven?t got amazing facilities and it would be interesting getting an etype in my garage but i guess that means i need another. Are parts easy to come across? Body panels etc?

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#8

Post by 1954Etype » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:26 pm

vee12eman wrote:Nah,

I was in the RAF at the time, still on L Plates and the car seemed to be the main transport to the pub. On a few occasions, the full licence holder required for legal reasons was actually in the back, once he was asleep (well, passed out omre accurately!).

I couldn't go out by myself withouth a qualified driver, but somehow convinced myself that all the above was legal(!), but wouldn't go out alone (definitely illegal!). I tend to find that having 4-5 drunken airmen (trainees all of us) in the back of the van was not inducive to romantic moods, so the mattress was not really required! When I passed my test, I sold the van and bought a Spitfire - I managed to pick up the ladies in that, but by now I had graduated to my own room - with a proper bed! Good job because I am not a contortionist, which I would have had to be in a Spitfire!

Memories!
My claim to fame was that I was the last serving (and youngest) airman to do a barrel roll in a spitfire over the main gates at Biggin Hill. Unfortunately it was a Triumph Spitfire and both of us were lucky to survive!

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#9

Post by MarkE » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:10 pm

I may have been a bit simplistic with the term 'good' for an E Type for ?10k ! You can get a running S3 2+2 for that sort of money, but it will need work. A lot of work if you want the car to be perfect, and to put it into context, most E Type specialist restorers quote ?100,000 for a drag-in drive-out mint restoration...a bit more if you want absolutely original specification.

The expensive bit to try and avoid on all E Types is body full of rust. Virtually every part and panel is available new, and better still, many are available 2nd hand. Good 2nd hand stuff can be more expensive than new, but it usually fits properly and looks right.

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#10

Post by vee12eman » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:21 am

Hi again.

Back on topic! All the guides do agree that you should buy an E-type that is not rusty, but no matter what people say, you do not need 100,000 to rebuild one. Mine cost something like 15 - 20,000 pounds, BUT, you have to be able to do most of the work yourself, I learned to weld, paint, prepare for paint (different from actually painting) and all this took a long time. My car has a rebuilt engine, uprated cooling system, new wiring loom, all new rubbers, including polyeurathane bushes, new brakes, cylinders, pipes, discs, shock absorbers, fuel system, rebuilt carbs - the list goes on. My car cost 2000 pounds, hard to replicate these days, but it was rusty and incomplete and you can buy better cars for under 10,000 still. Most of the people who own E-types do rely on professional help for most of the work - I have no problem with that but that is where most of the costs come from. All the panels can be bought and you can weld them yourself, but they are expensive and are not the best fit - the cars were hand built and all panels were adapted to fit during production; you will have to do the same.

You can do it all yourself and on a low budget this is the only way to do it but you will need to learn it all first! There are several of us on here who do our own work and you can get help by asking - but be realistic - you need the skills before you can do it yourself. Start with your Mini and work up. Even with the skills, restoring an E-type at home is difficult and takes time; mine took eight years. That's why I recommended looking at the links on XKE data - there are several home restorations on there with a lot of advice to be gained and inspiration to follow.

Good luck and stay focused.

Regards
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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#11

Post by richard1889 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:41 pm

so you guys wouldn't suggest just saving and buying 1 about ?30k - ?40k? dont mind my mini looking ruff round the edges cos i did the work but can just see myself ruining a E if i did the work lol

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#12

Post by richard1889 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:45 pm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Restored-1966 ... 53ea7b86da


like whats wrong with this if i just want an etype? ... apart from the fact its sold that is

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#13

Post by MarkE » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:23 pm

It looks fantastic Richard, but....

You can't trust that any car is any good just from photos....it could just be a scrapper under that lovely paint, or it could be perfect....it's probably somewhere in-between. The doors seem to be proud of the body, and the bonnet gaps are huge at the bottom, and the engine frames are a different colour, all of which points to a tidy up rather than a restoration, and probably not to the original colour. The shape of the rear wheel arches looks pretty odd as well.

There's no proper description of the car. What work has been done to it, when, by whom? What invoices are there, where are the restoration photos?

With the scans of old adverts and E Type write ups in the advert, combined with a description free of any useful information, I would be very surprised if this was a good solid car. The guy is selling a dream and not this actual car.

I would still have gone to look at it though....some folks just don't know how to advertise cars!

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#14

Post by richard1889 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:33 pm

Ok then. Where is the best place to buy an etype from? Are there any shows? An also what part of an etype do you check first for rust etc? For a mini I check the sills first then rear valence.

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#15

Post by mgcjag » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:17 pm

Hi Richard... The essential buyers guide by Peter Crespin is a good place to start......Peter is a regular on this forum & has a wealth of knowledge. The next thing to do is go & look at as many E,s as you can & talk to as many owners as you can find & see if they will take you out for a ride.....decide on the model you want, how it fits your budget & if you want to do work yourself......As with any classic car thats approx 40 years old rust could be anywhere just keep looking till you find what you want from an honest seller...If needed you can always have an inspection by one of the specialists or befriend a knowlegagle owner who can help you......Where are you based? ...... Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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#16

Post by vee12eman » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:42 pm

Hi Richard,

Best way to start is research, research, research. Find out as much as you can about the cars - do you only want a Series 1 OTS (Open Top Sports) - if so start saving! If however, a Series 2 or 3 2+2 is OK for you, then these are significantly cheaper. Look at as many as you can and understand the costs and pitfalls involved. Few cars are as hyped up as the E-Type and in the wake of the 50th birthday celebrations of 2011, many people are still out to make a quick buck out of tarting up an average (or worse) car by tarting it up and selling it as something it isn't.

There are places to avoid, I am out of touch with UK at the moment so won't be drawn further on that and many will be reluctant to post on a forum for want of being accused of bias etc. So, it is best to go with recommended places, which of course also depends where you are and where you are prepared to travel. Harry at E-type UK who kindly hosts this forum is a good start and has a great reputation.

I am a home restorer and bought a box of rust and nuts and bolts; then built an E-type out of it, so I can't recommend specialists from which to buy whole cars, but I can say that certain specialists, including SNG Barratt, Hutsons and Martin Robey among others, are very good for parts and knowledge, although I have had disappointments with all of them. I stress that all the suppliers have their place and I bought parts from all of them, but had a sort of preferential pyramid, with the best at the tip and the others gradually further down, only to be called as the better suppliers had no stock!

I can also say that E-types rust all over. Badly repaired sills are to be avoided - check with a magnet and any sign of bubbling is a sign of probably big trouble and expense ahead. Rear wheelarches go, so do jacking points and sometimes rear radius arm forward mounts. The bonnet undertray supports the entire front end of the bodywork, is difficult to access and repair and has many moisture traps. It is a bolt on panel, but that is where the simplicity ends, since the panel takes time and patience (or skill) to replace and your bonnet may not fit afterward!

The front bulkhead rusts, especially in the footwells and near to the sill joint, often hidden under the lead loading and/or filler in this area. The mounting points for engine frames can rust and if the frames themselves show signs of rust and/or repair work, they should be replaced as you really should not repair them for all sorts of reasons. Series 3 cars seem to suffer less in this regard partly because they are younger, but do check well. They are difficult to completely access.

Doors rust but are reasonably straightforward to repair and reskin, but getting a good fit afterward can be tricky and paintwork can be very expensive for a good job - true of all areas. Boot floors rot well - check under the spare wheel and under the petrol tank as far as possible and get underneath to complete the check. Floors can rust (in similar locations to Mini floors - i.e. front footwells and around the rear corners. Panels are available or you can make your own repair sections if you are handy with a panel beating set and welder.

Check fit of all panels - it is difficult to get it right and if doors, hatch/boot and bonnet are proud or have uneven/large or even non-existent gaps, there is likely to be trouble ahead and this is a sign of an inept restoration or poor repairs after an accident. If you do buy a car and have work done to correct the sort of faults described here and elsewhere, then you will pay a premium for the skill and experience required. DIY is possible but requires much patience and a decent level of ability and confidence - it isn't necessarily cheap, but is way cheaper than professional costs.

If you are not too bothered about originality, engines from most 70s and 80s Jags with the relevant XK or V12 engine can be substituted and it is perfectly possible to rebuild the six cylinder motor at home with patience, provided the basic structure of the engine is undamaged. The V12 is a bit of a different proposition, possible to do with the correct tools, but often neglected and can be beyond repair.

The cas are wonderful, and worth the hassles, but well sorted cheap cars are almost unheard of, whilst poorly sorted expensive ones are all too common. Have patience and do the leg work and you will have a rewarding experience. Rush into it and you could get bitten.....

I agree with the recommendation for Peters books, but also read as many others as you can to know the cars as well as possible. I spent about 30 years researching.....! My conclusion was that I could only buy a clunker and do it up; my car cost 2000 pounds eight years ago and I have restored it on a budget, but those deals are few and far between and I only drove it (for the first time) last year, demonstrating how bad it was. Guys on this forum are helpful, let them know where you are, what you want, how far you will travel, do you want to restore or buy in good condition, what is your budget, how much work do you want to do yourself both for restoration and normal servicing and hopefully we can help. Maybe someone will be able to come look at cars with you. Also, cars occasionally come up for sale, so you never know...

Be aware though that the step up from inspecting, buying and running a Mini to doing the same for an E-type is a massive proposition and you really should tread carefully and seek help (on all levels!).

Good luck,

Regards,
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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#17

Post by Aar0sc » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:44 am

vee12eman wrote: Series 1 OTS (Open Top Sports)
I thought it was OTS for Open Two Seater :oops:
Dad's 1974 Jaguar E-Type V12 OTS, mine is a humbler Triumph Spitfire

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#18

Post by Heuer » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:40 am

From the Forum Knowledge Base:

"73. Jaguar originally referred to the cars as the 'Grand Touring Models' and variously described the models as 'Open 2-seater', 'Roadster', 'Open Car', 'OTS', 'Fixed Head Coupe', and 'Hardtop'. The latter name referred to the FHC and not the OTS fitted with a err ?. hard-top. No wonder the factory insisted on engine and chassis number when ordering parts.
74. The American distributors insisted on calling the car an 'XKE' to provide a marketing lineage to the XK120, XK140 and XK150. Jaguar based the name as a follow on pure racer from the C and D-Types ? remember they only planned to make 250."
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red
2024 Lexus LBX

Add your E-Type to our World Map: http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810

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#19

Post by richard1889 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:35 pm

mgcjag wrote:Hi Richard... The essential buyers guide by Peter Crespin is a good place to start......Peter is a regular on this forum & has a wealth of knowledge. The next thing to do is go & look at as many E,s as you can & talk to as many owners as you can find & see if they will take you out for a ride.....decide on the model you want, how it fits your budget & if you want to do work yourself......As with any classic car thats approx 40 years old rust could be anywhere just keep looking till you find what you want from an honest seller...If needed you can always have an inspection by one of the specialists or befriend a knowlegagle owner who can help you......Where are you based? ...... Steve
Sure thing ill get reading and saving lol. Based in Milton Keynes

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#20

Post by richard1889 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:46 pm

vee12eman wrote:Hi Richard,

Best way to start is research, research, research. Find out as much as you can about the cars - do you only want a Series 1 OTS (Open Top Sports) - if so start saving! If however, a Series 2 or 3 2+2 is OK for you, then these are significantly cheaper. Look at as many as you can and understand the costs and pitfalls involved. Few cars are as hyped up as the E-Type and in the wake of the 50th birthday celebrations of 2011, many people are still out to make a quick buck out of tarting up an average (or worse) car by tarting it up and selling it as something it isn't.


Good luck,

Regards,
Yea hardly the best time to buy one, just after a land mark birthday. Can't see myself owning any other one but a 2+2 as Es cost so much but i dont care.

Thanks for the help fella :)

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