Series 1 or Series 2?

Malc · Post by **Malc** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:55 am

I'm looking for a 2+2 (I'm 6ft 2ins so a fhc is a bit of a squeeze), and had always thought that the S2 would be better, mainly because of the improved cooling and the Girling brakes. However, on reflection, is the S1 just as good from an ownership point of view? The other 'improvements' made to the S2 over an S1 essentailly seem to be cosmetic, so does an S1 have any real disadvantages over an S2 - after all, if necessary, the cooling and the brakes could always be upgraded relatively easily if these were felt to be a problem. View would be appreciated to assist my searches! Malc

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:09 am

I have had both a 4.2 S1 FHC and an S2 OTS for nearly 20 years . The s1 is nicer looking, and more traditional in its interior fittings than an S2 would be , and this is not unimportant as the S2's switchgear in particular feels ( and is ) cheap and nasty by comparison with the S1's . However, dynamically the S2 has some considerable advantages and one particular disadvantage . The advantages are that the brakes , and the cooling, are much much better than on a standard S1, and whilst the S1 brakes can easily be improved with e.g. Coopercraft calipers, improving the cooling system to S2 standard is far less straightforward and will be very expensive . The one particular disadvantage - perhaps only in relation to swb cars - is that the S2 gearbox has wider and in some ways not well chosen ratios than the EJ box fitted to early swb 4.2 cars . In particular , 2nd gear, which is a wonderful overtaking ratio on S1s , is far lower . One other point to consider is that early 4.2 cars have the short stud engine block, which in general is far less troublesome than the later block where the studs go through the water jackets . For 2+2 cars there may not be much difference in the gearboxes in that all were wider ratios , and many people think the S2 2+2 is far less " vertical" looking than the S1. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Peter B. · Post by **Peter B.** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:29 pm

Hello Malc,
I owned a ?66 Series 1 2+2 for several years, and I have to say that, from my experience, neither the brakes nor the cooling is something that should shy you away from a series 1 car. Brakes on mine have been original and they coped with modern day traffic easily, given a not too sporty driver. But a 2+2 is no track day car anyway. Cooling is easy, an additional kenlowe fan, and you are set, at least here in Germany, where temperatures are well above 30 degrees Celsius in the summer and the traffic not really funny.
So it is up to the looks, and that is very personal. To me the series 1 is the real thing, best looks from outside(sorry) and the interieur as well, is much more appealing. Series 2 is more modern, series 1 is pure swinging sixties, and that was what I was looking for.
So, in the end, it is, as always, up to you.

Happy searching!
Peter

Kes · Post by **Kes** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:48 pm

Having said that...

Here's a vote for the Series 2 - 100% pure eType with better brakes, better lights, better cooling and much less expensive. For similar money you could buy a Series 1 that may well need a load of work doing to it to make it reliable and cosmetically sound, or a minter of a Series 2.

osgii · Post by **osgii** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:34 pm

No no no... the best is the 1.5 ;)

vacbag · Post by **vacbag** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:43 pm

Osgii I have searched my books and there is not such a model as 1.5
The E type started as a series 1 then various mods were carried out making it better and better until the ultimate car came out the series 2 .

Guess what ive got.
Steve.

Post by **Heuer** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:07 pm

Steve

There are some pedants who would disagree with you! http://www.jcna.com/library/concours/2006/e-type1.5.pdf

Malc · Post by **Malc** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:43 pm

Ah, the old Series 1.5 conundrum. It was not 'officially' known as the 1.5 but it was the first of the 'open headlight' cars, but with the lights still above the bumpers and with a few relatively minor alterations to the interior, mainly as an interim stop gap to comply with US safety regulations pending the Series 2. It ran from December 1967 to October 1968 in all three formats (OTS, FHC & 2+2). They also had specific chassis numbers (IE 1864, IE21584 & IE50975, respectively).

Malc · Post by **Malc** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:19 pm

To clarify my last remarks, the headlights on an S1.5 were the 'open type' while the side lights remained above the bumper. The Series 2 sidelights were below the bumper. The chassis numbers on the respective models also STARTED with the numbers listed. Sorry for the confusion - was excited actually knowing the answer to a query!

Post by **Heuer** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:37 pm

Actually the early cars were not officially known as the S1. I did mention pedants did I not?

steve3.8 · Post by **steve3.8** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:06 am

Malc,

The choice is all about asthetics not brakes etc , if you don?t have an eye for the closed headlamp looks, lights above the bumpers and the flick switch centre panel of the S1 just buy the best car you can find for your money . All standard 6 cyl manual e types have similar performance give or take a very small margin, and after all the view down the bonnet is the same ! .

Just bear in mind you may sell the car one day and the least desirable model will be hard to shift if you require top money back .

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:22 pm

Malc. why not have a look at a S3 2+2? Being slightly wider they seem to suit the extra length of the 2+2 very well. Their brakes and cooling are completely sorted, and of course, you have a bullet proof V12 to play with!

At 6ft 5 inches I fit into my S1 Coupe quite well, although I don't think that I would want to do more than three or four hours in one go. All I've done is to put reclining (S2 or S3) seats in, and there is enough room for it to be very enjoyable, and that's even using the huge original steering wheel.

You have quite a few options.

Malc · Post by **Malc** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:38 am

Good point Mark re the S3, but, to be frank, the sheer complexity of the V12 puts me off - plus the fuel bills! I don't mind fiddling about with engines, in an amateur way, but I wouldn't know where to start with a V12. Interesting that you fit an Coupe - I'm 6'3" and am looking for a 2+2 because I couldn't fit in a Coupe - well I did but my head was pushed against the roof and I couldn't have driven it for more than a few miles. Did you simply fit some S2 seats because the one I tried was an S1 (although with the better seats). Malc

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:51 am

The fuel bills aren't too much of a problem if you're doing the sort of annual mileage most E Types do. If you do 1000 miles a year, it will cost you around ?70 more for the annual fuel bill for a V12....?140 if doing 2000 a year...etc. You can get the V12 fuel injected very cheaply by using the components from an old XJS, then the numbers are the other way around as the V12 then does 25 mpg.

The V12 is bullet proof so long as it hasn't been stood for a long time. Buy one that's running well without the dreaded rear crankshaft oil seal leaking, and about the only things you need to do is an annual oil and coolant change, and a 10 yearly carb rebuild and hose replacement. I had to fully rebuild both my V12 and 6 cylinder engines, and the 6 cost a fair bit more to do. That was 14 years ago, and things may have changed.

My S2 seats were re-trimmed in the style of the S1, and have the advantage over the S1 seat of being reclining. The trimmer is about my size, so he cut the base foam down until he could fit into the car, and with a bit of recline it's fine for me. As mentioned above, I couldn't do a 10 hour stint in the car though!

We are all different shapes and sizes, and I guess that if you have a longer body and shorter legs, then my car still may not be suitable. But I go on the assumption that if I can drive a car without the seat fitted, it's just a question of adjustment!

Malc · Post by **Malc** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:51 pm

Hi Mark - thanks for giving me another dilemma! I spent weeks working out which model I wanted and now I'm back to square one if I consider an S3. Mind you, everyone seems to be ganging up on me - a friend of mine has a mint S3 and loves it; I went to see an S2 in a garage today and the chap waxed lyrical about S3s and how all his clients wanted one rather than an S1 or 2 so it's lucky I've already got Peter Crespin's second book on S3s 'cos now I'll have to start reading that one (and start trawling the classifieds again....!)

Mark Gordon · Post by **Mark Gordon** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:21 pm

The obvious solution is to get one of each!

Malc · Post by **Malc** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:23 pm

I'll forward to you the wife's phone number and see if you could persuade her of the merits of both cars in the garage!

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Series 1 or Series 2?

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