Engines that can be used

[CTDavies]

Hi there,
I am still looking for a decent engine for my Series 2 2+2 project. In the last 5 months I have learnt that original E-Type engines are very expensive and somewhat hard to find. With the XK engine being used in so many cars, I'm sure that some are a better choice than others for using in an E-Type.
I'm not trying to improve the performance of my car, I'm rather looking for an engine which will be as close to the original Series 2 E-Type engine as possible (and will let me use my existing auto transmission).

As my 2+2 is a 1969 model I'd like to assume that a Series 1 XJ6 is a very close match (although my literature shows it only had two SU carburettors).
The MarkX/420G had three carbies, although the MarkX production stopped in 1965. The S-Type/420 had two but was produced until 1969. My feelings tell me, that a 420G engine might be the closest to a Series 2, but is also very difficult to find (but my feelings are frequently wrong-haha!)

So my questions are, which engine is an ideal alternative to an original Series 2 E-Type engine? Which would fit without having to make too many conversions/changes?

I'm hoping someone here will answer that the XJ6 Series 1 engine can be used without any changes at all, but life is rarely that easy

Thanks for your suggestions. Chris

[kingzetts]

Chris,
I think you need to subdivide your question between engine and carburettors/exhaust manifolds.

I am far from the most knowledgeable on here but I understand that;
a) any 4.2 litre XK engine will fit and will couple to the standard bellhousing.
b) the sump, exhaust manifolds and carburettors (or more accurately the inlet manifold) are unique to the e-type. The carbs/manifold from other triple-carb models will not fit because the E-type requires an inlet manifold which inclines slightly downwards towards the carbs to clear the bonnet.

You may have to change certain engine ancillaries such as the water pump, alternator bracketry, etc to suit the E-type engine bay layout.

[PeterCrespin]

You are correct except that the manifolds are the same on some other Jags like the XK. It's true some of the early alternatives had a different exhaust pipe sealing arrangement but I don't *think* the E-type exhaust manifolds are truly unique. I have actually seen an E-type that used the swept-back manifolds of a subframe-type saloon and they looked very good, but needed special downpipes to connect with the silencers.

Meanwhile, anyone converting a saloon engine will also need the pick-up pipe to go with the E-type sump. Saloon waterpump clearance can be marginal depending on type. E-type brackets between block and bell are needed too, or the XJ type cut away to clear the reaction plate.

[CTDavies]

Thanks for your input, guys. From what I understand I can basically use any XK4.2 engine, as they will all fit.
I still have the Strombergs that came with my car, so I could use those, although I'd much rather prefer triple SUs (more power?). The bell brackets are also still there, well so far I have been able to identify one.
But I would still need a unique E-Type sump with feeder pipe and the exhaust manifolds.
Waterpump clearance would have to be addressed if necessary.
Is this all?
Maybe not. My 2+2 had the factory installed air conditioning with the compressor replacing the alternator (or in its place). Would this only require locating the necessary fasteners/brackets or is there more to watch out for here? I'm not sure if I will eventually use the a/c as I hate the way it looks perched under the dash.
I feel I am slowly getting what I need to know here, so further assistance is geatly appreciated.
Chris

[PeterCrespin]

Go to www.xkedata.com and search for engine photos for similar cars to see howe the back-to-front alternator is fitted on a big bracket, and the AC compressor (which can be changed for a smaller modern one).

Obviously you need the correct parts book, although in your case you are stuck with either using J38 (the Series 1 2+2 book) or buying the excellent but expensive book by Richard Liggett.

If you can locate a copy of the JEC magazine from (I think) June/July-ish 2011, I wrote an illustrated article on doing the XJ engine swap.

[CTDavies]

Hi Peter, thanks for your input. I have found the JEC magazine with your article and have read it thoroughly (which one needs to do - there is a lot of info-per-word in it).
Also, this morning I was able to locate a 1967 420 engine for 50 Euros - yeah!!
I know there will be a lot of work needed for an XK 4.2 engine at that price but for me it is at least a step in the right direction. For now I have only bought the engine as I still have the carbies and the auto gear box that came with my car, but the seller also has the complete 420 'Drive train' with 'compact overdrive' and prop shaft. Is that something worth getting for an E-Type for an upgrade??
I will collect it (the engine) just after new year and will let you know what it is like.
Chris

[00series]

Having converted a 1969 2+2 from auto to manual, i would go for the the Manual overdrive box (which will fit an auto etype) as an Etype with auto gearbox is like driving a hearse that resembles a sports car.

However if you do go down this route be prepared for a long shopping list ie: clutch pedal, brake pedal conversion, prop shaft length conversion, spacers, springs pipes, bits & bobs - but it is definately without question worth it & it will add ?3k - ?4k to the value of the car.
Just make sure you get the XK bell housing included with the gearbox as these can be expensive.
If your on a budget (as i am) i would spend the money on the gearbox & run with the strombergs as its easier to upgrade to triple SU's at a later date, plus it took me 6 months to find SU's with manifold at the right price & after a rebuild there was no change out of ?1500.

Good luck, Bert

[Durango2k]

Pete mate,

(yes I have watched Mark Evans BORN tooooooo often I bet :D ), is there a chance to get your article here in germany ?

I will be putting an XJ-S3- engine in my E as you already know, so I think it would be very helpfull to me as well.

But where to source a JEC magazine... ?

thanks !

Carsten

[abowie]

Depending on which one it is, I have a feeling that the OD box may actually fit in a 2+2; in any event buy it if it's not stupidly expensive. If you're going to refit your auto box you'll need a different flywheel etc to fit the torque converter. I managed to find an E Type sump without a huge amount of difficulty and the pickup pipes can, I think be bought from the usuals.

Keep posting; this is interesting!

[PeterCrespin]

Pete mate,

is there a chance to get your article here in germany ?

I will be putting an XJ-S3- engine in my E as you already know, so I think it would be very helpfull to me as well.

But where to source a JEC magazine... ?

No idea Carsten. You could try asking Chris exactly which issue it was and then ask JEC for a back copy if they keep them?

Pete

[Durango2k]

Hi Pete,

I just got it from Chris so I?m happy.

Now I have to dig through all this info.

I think I will have LOTS of questions later this year, once I decide it?s time to tackle the engine. For now, the final interior bits and the IRS is enough.

But I think some time, hopefully march or april, it?ll be time to go for the power unit.

Carsten

[CTDavies]

Hello People, here you can see what I got. Of course I forgot the camera when I bought the engine, so I didn't take pictures of it. Collecting the engine was a six hour round trip and we were back too late to take it out of the trailer. Next day I called a place in M?hlheim an der Ruhr that specializes on refurbishing XK engines and with it still in the trailer, I decided to take it there straight away. I had a nice chat with the owner of that place who told me his philosophy is never to tell a Jaguar owner that what he has is crap. Jaguar owners, so he tells me also, take comments like that very personally, more than other people. A-ha! I was glad he didn't say my engine was crap - that would have really upset me. We decided he'll take his Cystoscope and all his other neat little gadgets to look at the engine inside and out and will let me know the verdict towards the end of the month. I kept the transmission here though, as I want it checked by an OD specialist in Essen, close by.

Here are some pictures









and here is the only shot of the engine I have (it's the image the seller placed on ebay). It's from a 1967 420 Limousine (420 without the G). The engine number starts with 7F which had me confused for a while as my literature shows the 420 and 420G numbers starting 7D. My literature is obviously wrong here. Actually the whole unit incl. engine, gear box, OD etc. came from the same car, which made the purchase even more attractive.



@abowie: the gear box wasn't horrendously expensive but it wasn't cheap either.

@Bert: Great advice from you on dealing with the gear box first, Good to know there are people around who have tackled this conversion themselves.

[PeterCrespin]

The overdrive is a Compact Type A and with that trans lid the whole lot will fit your 2+2 exactly. However, you have to ask why on earth was the OD removed? Not a good sign. Has the small eccentric ring been lost that drives the pump off the shaft? It falls off easily once the OD is removed...

Since you are both in Deutschland I will forgive the conspiracy to violate copyright laws but there's always Interpol! :-)

[christopher storey]

Your literature is not wrong . Your engine is in fact from a Daimler DS420 limousine - the one which was based on the Mark 10 floorpan . It is somewhat unlikely that it is an S3 engine at all - they all have 8 prefixes, and are easily recongisable by the ribbed raised surface of the block, the ribs running vertically either side of each core plug . I am afraid as a result that the suggestion that the engine and box all originally came from the same car is incorrect. The Daimlers were only ever fitted with automatic transmission

[PeterCrespin]

Carsten was the one with the S3 Christopher. I agree in general on Daimler DS420 being automatics by default, but there were a few manuals made to special order. It all fits with the story so far.

[Durango2k]

Yes, I was the fool to buy a late 1986 S3 iE complete wreck in Berlin, for 300 Euros. Then I took the engine out, and sold the remains for 150...

Carsten

[Durango2k]

Since you are both in Deutschland I will forgive the conspiracy to violate copyright laws but there's always Interpol! :-)

Hi Pete,

IF you send Interpol PLEASE send this guy:

Hilarious, that Mr. Sellers !

Carsten

[PeterCrespin]

I went for lunch with Jack Hollibaugh today, a long time 'cyber friend' from the Jag-lovers X300 list who came to visit. We had never met before and I suggested he drive us to lunch in the OTS. As we were zooming alonm for his first E-type drive, he said I wasn't what he had expected.

"What did you expect then?"

"Oh, some English guy in a suit."

Having come to Cambridgeshire to collect your tub, you know how wrong he was on that score Carsten!

[Durango2k]

I well remember the scenery, Pete.

I was stopping my car, seeing you coming out of the house, and in THAT moment a bird dropped a large sh*t on my Mercedes?s bonnet.

You said "Welcome to England".

That was that....

Carsten, still happy with the shell !

[1954Etype]

"Oh some English guy in a suit."

:D :D