New bodyshell by IDL

[APersoons]

Hello everyone,

I'm thinking of restoring my 1966 FHC with a "new" exchange bodyshell from Gordon Russell at IDL.
I was proposed an exchange deal with my own bonnet fitted, bumpers trial fitted and ground, and all panel gaps set correctly with the lead work done, and the body finished in 2k epoxy ready for prep and painting.

Although I have confidence in them, it would be nice to hear of some experiences or information anyone has concerning their work on E-types before spending the amount involved.


Kind regards,
Axel

[1954Etype]

never heard of them. Is there a website?

[christopher storey]

I have vague recollections that it was started somewhere in Sussex by someone who had been at Lynx , and that one or two "racing" E types had been produced but it is a very long time since I have heard anything of them . The questions I would really want to ask is where are the parts used to produce the shell sourced from, what jigs are used, what frames are used etc . I would also want to be satisified that they had adequate experience of lead loading . Also, I have to say that using an existing bonnet on a "new" shell is fraught with problems particularly if the bonnet turns out to have been cut so that it is shorter and/or shallower than usual

[Dave K]

Hello everyone,

I'm thinking of restoring my 1966 FHC with a "new" exchange bodyshell from Gordon Russell at IDL.
I was proposed an exchange deal with my own bonnet fitted, bumpers trial fitted and ground, and all panel gaps set correctly with the lead work done, and the body finished in 2k epoxy ready for prep and painting.

Although I have confidence in them, it would be nice to hear of some experiences or information anyone has concerning their work on E-types before spending the amount involved.


Kind regards,
Axel

Axel,

It is usual when building up a bodyshell that the original bumpers are used as a pattern so no grinding of them is required.

Dave

[APersoons]

Thank you all for the fast replies,

http://www.idluk.eu/classic/page2/page2.html is their website Angus.

I do believe there is a Lynx connection, Christopher.
Where they source their panels or fabricate them in house I don't know yet, good question.
The flat floor assembly they sell on their website certainly looks like a quality item (although hard to judge based on a picture), and they give a 5 year warranty on new bodyshells.

As far as the bonnet goes, I'm not too concerned (wrongly maybe), but from what I've heard and seen, a new bonnet isn't guaranteed to fit better than an original, a lot of work will be required to make one fit either way.

IDL brought up the matter of frames, and I was pleased to find they quickly proposed Uryk's frames from E-typefabs.

I might be wrong about the grinding of the bumpers, David.
All I was told was that the bumpers and chrome would be fitted during the metalwork stage to insure a good fit, I added the grinding part myself since I thought that's how it was done

The price I was quoted seems more or less reasonable to me, although it has been some time since I checked what Hutsons or Robey ask for a complete shell.

Question remains, would you be prepared to take the plunge or are there obvious alternatives I haven't considered?

Axel

[vipergts]

Gordon is a very nice fella and he knows Etypes very well.

I've had experience with one of the other specialist people you mention and it wasn't fun.

[1954Etype]

Axel

sounds like a good idea but...

1. How much?
2. With a new shell, you never cover off the fit of all items (dash top, dash side chromed etc) and therefore the holes aren't there!
3. Mounting holes are slightly out which means a lot of fettling. (on one car, the mountings on the floor pan for fixing the silencer were out by nearly .25 of an inch! This meant having to weld a plate to one of the mountings to make it fit)

just be aware that unless a car has been completely built in the past, there will be a lot of extra work in the build - think fitting aftermarket parts!

You definitely want to talk to previous customers to discuss their experience.

[APersoons]

I've met Gordon only once, but he indeed came across as a very nice guy who knows what he's talking about.

Angus,

Since the shell I have is a restorable, and has good bulkheads (the rest is very rusty though), I won't be getting (nor want) a fresh from the pressings shell with new bulkheads.
IDL has a relatively sound 4.2 FHC bodyshell laying around that they would be restoring, including all new sills, floors, doors, frames etc.
So I presume all the mounting holes in the bulkhead etc would already be there.

So basically, what's on the table is the offer to swap a rusty shell for a completely restored original ready for prep and paint. And when the work on the "new" shell is finished, they get a body with good original bulkheads in return.

20,800 Stirling plus VAT since you ask.

I reckon at this price I'm not being ripped off considering all the work involved, what are your opinions?

Not having heard from previous customers is what's holding me back the most at the moment.


Axel

[1954Etype]

Axel

I have no doubt that what is being offered is good as I have no way to assess it.

25k for a shell that needs painting.... Paint on top of that, say 7k. 32k for a Series 1 FHC shell. Hmmmm, for my money, I'd seriously look at a Californian car that was rot free - they are still out there.

Just another option I would consider.

[APersoons]

Angus,

Good point, but can you ever be really sure there's not some rust tacked away inside the boxed panels that one day could grow?

I also like this modification to strengthen the shell, which would only be possible if you take most of the panels off http://www.monocoque-metalworks.com/mai ... 01/framed/ , seems like it would add a significant amount of strength, is completely hidden from sight and at a minimal cost once you're at this stage already.

I also have an rust free, but accident damaged shell sitting around that I would be prepared to give to IDL together with the rusty one as part payment. Maybe that will soften the financial blow a little.
I'm waiting for them to give me a return price on that now.


Axel

[christopher storey]

To give you a guide my rebuild by Hutsons, which included a new roof, new doors and a new bonnet and frames, cost a good deal less than that - it was just about ?25,000 including VAT and that included about ?7,000 for painting . That was completed about 3 years ago . You can see what was done if you look on xkedata at 1E 20357

As far as the modifications are concerned , even if there were any point to them in an OTS ( which I doubt because my OTS has no scuttle shake , and I have never yet seen an E where the radius arms cause the floor to flex because there is in fact not a lot of load on them ) it is even more the case that an FHC is perfectly stiff without any need for strengthening. Just another case, I'm afraid, of a solution to a problem which does not exist

[Heuer]

I have gone out of my way to reduce the weight of my car (lightweight battery, plexiglass headlight covers, Borrani wheels, starter motor etc etc) not add it for what seems, as Christopher has stated, a solution looking for a problem. Having covered 44,000 fast road miles, at times over some very undulating road surfaces, there is no evidence of scuttle shake or "chipped door edges". Adding 32lbs plus the additional cost seems somewhat pointless for a road car. Jaguar factory tests showed the monocoque to be very rigid indeed but if you are looking for an area of weakness it is the frames which compromise torsional rigidity. Probably better to spend the money with Uryk for his uprated extra strength frames and put whatever is left to the purchase of solid wheels - wire wheels compromise steering feel and cornering.

[APersoons]

That's a great looking car Christopher!

That figure is seriously lower than I would have thought.
Bear with me while I deduct that figure with what's not included in the IDL quote, just to make it comparable.
Although I wasn't aware that new roofs were being made, I take it the prices used for the bonnet, roof, frames and the old shell are not that far off?

• Hutson
  
  25,000
  -7,000 Paint
  -5,000 Bonnet
  -1,500 Roof
  -1,700 Frames
  9,800
  
  -1,633 VAT
  8,167
  
  -3,000 old body
  5,167 for Hutsons compared to 20,820 for IDL

That's a ?15,653 difference, last time I checked one could get a nice Elan Plus 2 for that kind of money :)
So either I have made a big mistake in comparing this, or the choice is rather straightforward

Would the people who have used Hutsons services on their shells here recommend them, or are there any common issues that I should be aware of?


Having spiritedly driven my '65 FHC for over 20,000 miles, I know there is no actual problem with the stiffness of the tub.
On this famous surface rougher than the moon, also known as the Belgian roads, my original frames (should have replaced them while I was at it) would flex to a certain extent, which I found very annoying.
This is why I would upgrade them on the '66 car with Uryk's uprated items, that are so strong the body itself will take much more of the forces that otherwise would have been absorbed by the frame rails long before they ever reached the mounting points or the tub.
I quote from Uryk's recommendations regarding his uprated frames:

We strongly recommend additional reinforcement of all the frame mounting points on the front bulkhead including sill front end panels, longitudinal floor members and torsion bar reaction plate.

One could indeed say that this is a solution to a problem that didn't exist in the first place (originally).
In the same fashion it could be argued that this can also be said of reducing the weight on the front overhang, by for example, changing the glass headlamp covers to plastic, on a fast driven car that has a natural tendency to lift it's nose at high speeds, which Jaguar factory tests also showed


Axel

[christopher storey]

The roof was a second hand one . The original cost quoted for repairing the shell alone was rather more than you have calculated, at about 12,000 including vat , and the extras , doors, bonnet , frames, were rather less than your figures, thus accounting for the difference. A point I should have made was that those figures are exclusively for a bare shell ; I did all the stripping work, and the rebuilding, myself. If your quotation includes stripping and rebuilding, then it would be something of a bargain

As far as Hutson's is concerned

1. they are very straight dealers - you do not suddenly find that mysterious charges have been added on from nowhere

2. Andy Rayner , who manages the whole operation , goes to very considerable trouble to see that the customer is satisfied - if things go wrong, he takes very great care to put things right

3.The quality of workmanship is first class, both in relation to metalwork and to paint

There is one drawback however : they have a lot of work, and the schedule does tend to fall behind as time goes on . It was essential in my experience to visit regularly, and that might be a snag when you are in Europe . The wait,( the rebuild took about 14 months in my case ) in my case, was worthwhile

[APersoons]

Christopher,

When you say stripping do you mean dismantling the car and getting it to bare metal, or actually removing all the panels that are to be replaced and putting struts in the car yourself?
I don't quite understand what you mean by rebuilding of the shell though, could you please clarify?

Good to hear they are nice to deal with.
14 months does seem like quite a long time when compared to the labour bill, I take it they work on several projects at the same time and not one at a time?

Brussels to Bradford is about 5 hours by train, so that's not really putting me off.

[christopher storey]

I took all the mechanical , suspension and interior trim parts out of the car and retained them at home to refurbish them , so that it was just a bare shell . I did not cut many panels out myself - just the outer sills, to see what was happening underneath . When all the work had been done, the car was returned to me as a painted shell with bonnet and frames fitted, but no interior or mechanical or suspension parts at all

So, here it was on the truck being taken to Hutsons ( I had scrapped the bonnet and frames )



Here it was on the truck being delivered to me





And here it was in the workshop ready to be reassembled