Can I trace a car reg no with its engine no or car no ?

[tr2tr6]

I have been offered an e-type as a 'barn find' and have been told that it has been in a shed for about 30 years! Of course this is very possible but I want to check every avenue before buying and would really like to find out what the original registration number of the vehicle was as the current owner does not have a log book. I have taken a note of the numbers from the identification plate and they match with the engine and chassis numbers etc. Is there a way that I can find out the registration number? I know that I can do this via the Heritage Certificate route but as the car does not belong to me yet I think this may be difficult. Any help would be much appreciated. Angela

[PeterCrespin]

I have a strong feeling of d?j? vu.

Haven't you just had a full discussion on this topic on Jag-lovers.org? There's nothing more to tell you than what you were told there, I think, by many of the same people...?
'
Good luck finding more info but if the seller isn't bothered to pay for a certificate you could offer to fund it yourself, as that would eventually come to you anyhow presumably?

Pete

[Heuer]

Angela did post on JL but the responses were rather bemused and vague as many respondents wrongly assumed she was in the US. Let's see if we can do better!

At my request Angela sent me the chassis number by email. This is a 1970 S2 2+2 but not registered with the Jaguar drivers Club. Nearest are 1R 35602 (BRG - URD 709H) and 1R35610 (Red - VBD 737H). XKEdat.com also does not list the car but it has the one built next to it on the production line - 1R35608BW (reg CPY 116) BW means this one was an auto which this one is not. Although you can get the current owner to apply for a JHT certificate there is no guarantee the registration number will be on it. Perhaps if Tom (omnipeta) drops by he can offer assistance?

In the meantime have a look at a few of the restoration stories here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8 as they may inspire you (or frighten you ) as to what is possible. Angus Moss is currently restoring a S2 and his blog is here: http://mossjaguar.com/in-the-workshop.html

Whilst we await developments on an ID anyone care to offer advice to Angela on what to consider when buying this car, potential costs, timescales and current value?

[PeterCrespin]

I think it's highly likely a 1970 UK car would be on DVLA's computer. Although they were still just about on paper log books then, it would still have been a comparatively young car and probably still on the road when computerisation came in.

The problem would be to find someone to whom Swansea would release info but I must say, now that we know it's a 1970 car, what's so special about one H reg versus whatever age-related reg Swansea would assign when the car were put back on the road? AFAIK they only play ball when it's of historic interest and documented from the time. A 1970 car belonging to nobody famous might struggle on that criterion. Maybe not - perhaps all E-types are regarded as special by DVLA?

Pete

[Heuer]

Just had this from Tom:

"Hi Angela, success!

Your car was built on 29th September 1969, dispatched to Henly's of London (dealers) on 21st October 1969. Original paint, light Blue, Dark Blue trim. Now for the interesting bit, 1st owner was 'Kent Messenger Ltd' 123 Week St, Maidstone, Kent. Registration 1 KM - quite a unique registration I think you'll agree. By the way all numbers match, so genuine car. I hope this information is helpful to you.

sincere and kind regards,

Tom."

[Simon P]

That's a bit of a result. Bound to be some pictures of it in the Kent Messenger's archives I would have thought.

[PeterCrespin]

That's a bit of a result. Bound to be some pictures of it in the Kent Messenger's archives I would have thought.

Yes, a result of lost revenue to Jaguar Heritage. Shame.

They are an organisation we should be supporting, not undermining by using factory information obtained by others that cannot be legitimately accounted for (because Jaguar never at any time sold it to anyone - leaving underhand means as the only option for getting hold of it).

Unless you rate expediency higher than integrity you should go to the factory for their information.

The irony of course is that the whole rationale for getting this info was ostensibly to obtain the original number. Having now ascertained the number by dubious means, it turns out it won't be available to use anyhow, as I'm sure 1KM isn't available and won't have been on the car when Kent Messenger sold it eventually.

Maybe it was on the car, because somebody stole that too...

Pete

[omnipeta]

Ouch! Good old Peter, never one to let a good rumour get in the way of the truth, very sad :-(

[PeterCrespin]

If you're suggesting I am propounding a rumour Tom, how do you account for possession of or access to the factory records?

If Jaguar archive people tell me they never sold the info, but a set went missing I believe them. If they further tell me that the prosecution case against the person involved failed on a technicality (a matter of public record) then I believe them on that as well.

By contrast, I don't believe rumours.

On the other side of the argument, if those with access to the missing information cannot give a legitimate paper trail back to the rightful owners that raises a very serious question about the honesty and openess of any 'transactions' involved.

If they know themselves that Jaguar never did and never would sell the factory records you would think it would raise a question in their own minds about whether they were handling goods honestly obtained.

If those in possession of the documents today - however obtained - continue to use them to make money (or even make nothing but deprive Jaguar Heritage of legitimate income they would otherwise receive by selling Production Trace Certificates) that raises further alarm bells.

Res ipsa loquitur is the expression I believe. I obviously have nothing against you personally and you have an impressive Jaguar CV Tom. But unless you are saying you memorised the factory records during your years at Jaguar, I'd be interested to hear how your collaborator accounts for having a full set in his possession when Jaguar have never released one.

Pete

[tr2tr6]

Down boys! I am sorry that my post has caused such debate, however I would really like to thank Tom for his time and effort. Generosity is a gift and bitterness a hard pill to swallow so just to reassure everyone concerned Jaguar Heritage has not been swindled out of anything as last night I completed the forms and duly sent off my ?42 to them. Now that hopefully peace is regained, I would just like to share with all who have contributed to this post the great coincidence that has occurred as a result of this research.

As has already been disclosed the original reg no of the car has evolved as being 1 KM . When I saw this my jaw dropped in utter amazement as I see this number on a daily basis as it now belongs to no less than my next door neighbour whose family own the KM Group. It is now on German car - Silver Mercedes! I have now had a chance to speak with her about the E Type and she has confirmed to me that it was originally purchased by her Father from a garage in Maidstone who presumably obtained it from Henleys in London. He got the 1 KM number with the car. Sadly her father died last year so I will be unable to speak with him about it but she did say that he would have loved to hear the story as he apparently regretted selling it.

Although this has been an interesting and strange occurrence, it however still does not help me in my original quest as I really wanted to find out if the car was a stolen vehicle and thought that I might be able obtain this with the reg no. Now that I know the original reg no is no longer on the car I am back to where I started. Hey ho!

[PeterCrespin]

That is about as strange a coincidence as you can get. However, if the usual Commercial car checking services can't help, you could surely just email DVLA with that specific query. Give them the Car Number (VIN) and engine number and ask if this is a stolen car? They don't give out confidential registered keeper info but they would surely alert you as to whether or not they had it down as a stolen and not recovered vehicle? Having had two E-types stolen 10 months ago I certainly hope anyone checking those IDs would receive an answer in the affirmative.

Ironic that we're discussing the pitfalls of not checking in case a Jaguar is stolen. Would it make much difference if the current custodians generously gave you time and effort to help, but held back information on how the car ended up in their barn without a bill of sale?

No matter. Thank you for playing a straight bat and giving Jaguar Heritage their due.

Pete

[Heuer]

Seems to be an excellent ending for all concerned! Angela found some interesting history, Tom did a great job and JHT benefit as a result. This car is not recorded as stolen or a write off so you can move ahead and agree a purchase price.

"But how did you know this David?" I hear you ask: http://bit.ly/18iMI2S

[JimmyS]

This car is not recorded as stolen or a write off so you can move ahead and agree a purchase price.

Sorry to put a damper on things, I would recommend caution and further evidence that the car is all above board. The VINCheck web site is based in the USA and states "The National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) has access to a database of vehicles which were reported as stolen within the past five years and remain unrecovered or declared as salvage." If it has been in a shed in the UK for 30 years, the VINCheck data is unlikely to apply.

[Heuer]

Bugger!

[tr2tr6]

Well I just looked at the site and as has already been stated it is an American site so obviously will not be of any use particularly as the car has been in storage for so many years.

I have been into the local police station to ask if they had any suggestions but just drew a blank there as well, even though I thought that they would be able to check it out for me. Strange that nobody wants stolen cars to be resold but you can only do an HPI if you have the Reg No.

Well I wont give up and just keep on trying!

[Heuer]

Oh well, useful site for those thinking of importing an E-Type from the US I guess. Go with Pete's suggestion and contact the DVLA and ask for their assistance.

[38E]

....Although this has been an interesting and strange occurrence, it however still does not help me in my original quest as I really wanted to find out if the car was a stolen vehicle and thought that I might be able obtain this with the reg no. Now that I know the original reg no is no longer on the car I am back to where I started. Hey ho!

Since you've unearthed another E-type anyway, it might be a good idea to enter the details on xkedata.com. That's the premier register of known cars. You don't need to own it to do that.

I dragged my '62 out of a barn in England where it had sat for years. Oddly enough my car had also sported a personal registration number, which the owner had transferred to his new Mercedes before relegating the Jag to the barn. I didn't get a log book with it either, just a scrawled receipt. But at that time, the DMV was much more obliging and sent me a replacement log book together with a list of all the previous owners.

The chassis number is the important one. Registration numbers are not necessarily exclusive to a particular car. My car had four different registration numbers during its time in England.

[PeterCrespin]

I have been into the local police station to ask if they had any suggestions but just drew a blank there as well, even though I thought that they would be able to check it out for me.

That IS disappointing. As Clive said, the VIN's they key as reg numbers can be shuffled or duplicated on classics at will. There'd be nothing to stop someone looking at classifieds or going to a show and buying some black and white stick-on plates to match a similar car so when a buyer did an HPI check it came up clear.

I can't imagine it would have taken the Police five minutes to put a request into Swansea?

Pete

[steve3.8]

That's a bit of a result. Bound to be some pictures of it in the Kent Messenger's archives I would have thought.

Can't believe i am reading this , last year i bought a 1967 Lotus elan +2 it's first regitered owner was Kent Messenger Photographer John Wardley , John is now retired and overseas but through KM i contacted him and he sent me some early 70's B&W photo's of the car , more recently the Lotus was owned by our Forum Moderator " MarkE " and it was Mark that pointed me towards buying it , [thanks Mark ].

I am starting to think KM must have been a petrolhead paradise in the 70's as they even ran their own race series at major circuits .

http://www.imps4ever.info/racing/races/ ... ewood.html

I hope the outcome is good Angela , have you asked your local police if your County has a specific vehicle identity / crime unit ? .

[PeterCrespin]

Can't believe i am reading this , last year i bought a 1967 Lotus elan +2...

Are you better now? Still going to counselling? I'd take a brisk walk in the sunshine rather than those nasty tablets. You do realise that isn't a fault code reader or jump leads they put on your head every six weeks?