Headlamp plug/socket

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Wed May 08, 2013 11:27 am

I'm sure this topic must have been covered before but I couldn't find anything.

Went out last night at 8pm and turned on the lights but nothing came on.

I checked all the wiring at the fuseboard behind the switch panel. All voltages correct at fuses as switch is turned to each of 3 positions.

Then at various times the side lights came on and also the main beam worked. Conclusion it must be the 8 pin bonnet plug/socket.
When I touched the plug it was only just engaged.
Played around a bit with it and eventually got it so all the lights came on, including dipped beam. However I decided to spray WD40 on the plug and re-secure the cable ties holding the cable, however after that I can't get the headlamps on, just side lights.

So can anyone offer advice on the plug and socket.
It seems very loose and can easily be pulled out.
Also the rubber boot will not come right down so that it covers all the plug/socket connection point and touches the bonnet metal.

Another thing is that when the side lights are turned on and off there is sound under the dash as if a relay is working, but there shouldn't be one should there?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Wed May 08, 2013 5:06 pm

Both the plug pins and the socket are in my experience highly subject to corrosion . Furthermore, if there has been any tendency for the multiple cables leading to the plug to move around, you get work hardening and eventual breakage of wire strands leading to high resistance and other ills. The plug is fairly readily dismantleable . However, also I have found that switches tend to get corrosion particularly on cars which are left standing ( like mine ) . An aero can of switch cleaner is a good start for this, with plentiful working of the switches, followed by a spray on dielectric or silicone grease to try and forestall recurrence. Although it is not easy to get these fluids into the old style switches, it can usually be accomplished if the switches are taken off so that gravity can assist with infiltrating the fluids

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Thu May 09, 2013 10:56 am

Had another good look at it today.

Turns out I had put the plug back in the wrong alignment of the pins. I was rather surprised I was able to do this. As a result the dip beam lamps were on fed by the side light feed.
I'm amazed that the plug/socket has no proper keying built into the casing.
Also surprising because there are 8 pins/holes, one central and 7 around the circumference. 4 are large and 4 are smaller so that should provide elementary keying.
For the benefit of others the contacts are numbered on both the plug and the socket. They are used as follows:
Large ones:
1 - not used
2 - High beam
3 - Dip beam
4 - not used (central one)
Smaller ones
5 - side lights
6 - fog lights (if fitted)
7 - RH flasher
8 - LH flasher

Overall the plug is still pretty loose in the socket and I can see it may well work loose again due to vibration, however I cannot see a way of holding it in tight.
Any ideas or known solutions?

Post by **1954Etype** » Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am

Beyond what you have already done, probably not. If you need a new one (and not bothered about originality) I have seen caravan/trailer connectors used.

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Thu May 09, 2013 5:30 pm

I would swap out the plug Steve - when its in good condition you CANT insert it incorrectly and its a pretty tight fit.

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Thu May 09, 2013 6:36 pm

I wonder whether it is already a non-standard plug. Mine have a lug on them which makes it virtually impossible to put them in wrongly in a rotational sense . I think a lot of people who have had to replace them will have jobbed at the ?75 ( or more ) charged for replacements

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Thu May 09, 2013 7:27 pm

Hi Chris

I assume you know what's involved in replacing the plug and socket.
I thought it came as part of a wiring harness and so would be a big and expensive job.
Any info would be appreciated.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Thu May 09, 2013 7:36 pm

vikla wrote:Had another good look at it today.

Turns out I had put the plug back in the wrong alignment of the pins. I was rather surprised I was able to do this. As a result the dip beam lamps were on fed by the side light feed.
I'm amazed that the plug/socket has no proper keying built into the casing.
Also surprising because there are 8 pins/holes, one central and 7 around the

Happy to 'de-amaze ' you as of course there is decent keying, otherwise it would be a useless arrangement, with only a one in seven chance of getting it right. Every other E-thpe would be flashing its headlamps turning left, or whatever.

The keying is what prevented you from inserting it fully and made it loose (which was your clue). Good job you didn't try totally forcing it. This connector is not a loose fit when correctly assembled. So there is hope that as it stayed loose it wasn't totally mashed and should be recoverable if you totally clean out the male and female halves.

This all presupposes you have the standard parts, but as you have numbered pins as shown in the wiring diagrams, I think it's safe to assume the bits are standard and it was just the reassembly that was 'custom' :-)

Pete

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Thu May 09, 2013 8:14 pm

Its easy enough to replace...

From memory and in Haynes manual style...

1 Pull back the rubber cover (actually harder than it sounds if the rubber is old and hard) [stop sniggering at the back]
2 You will now see a metal cover that has 3 (maybe 4) folded over tabs which effectively hold the cover on the Bakelite part and is connected to the long black plastic cover tube thingy.
3 ease those tabs back trying not to break them and then struggle for a while to pull back that metal cover
4 Once the metal cover has been pulled back you can see all the wires and they are held in place with screws just like a UK mains plug
5 Take pictures of where the wires went / put them in the right place as per the wiring diagram
6 Undo the screws and remove plug
7 Replace with the new plug and follow the above in reverse...

Its distinctly possible that the new plug will come with the black plastic cover tube thingy already attached - in which case you have to take that apart too...

Post by **1954Etype** » Thu May 09, 2013 8:31 pm

ChrisC wrote:Its easy enough to replace...

From memory and in Haynes manual style...

1 Pull back the rubber cover (actually harder than it sounds if the rubber is old and hard) [stop sniggering at the back]
2 You will now see a metal cover that has 3 (maybe 4) folded over tabs which effectively hold the cover on the Bakelite part and is connected to the long black plastic cover tube thingy.
3 ease those tabs back trying not to break them and then struggle for a while to pull back that metal cover
4 Once the metal cover has been pulled back you can see all the wires and they are held in place with screws just like a UK mains plug
5 Take pictures of where the wires went / put them in the right place as per the wiring diagram
6 Undo the screws and remove plug
7 Replace with the new plug and follow the above in reverse...

Its distinctly possible that the new plug will come with the black plastic cover tube thingy already attached - in which case you have to take that apart too...

Screws? Mine have all been soldered.

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Thu May 09, 2013 8:41 pm

Peter

On mine there is no keying on the plug body or the socket body. One just slides into the other.
The socket has pins sticking out, 4 large and 4 smaller ones.
The plug has a bakelite end plate with the corresponding 8 holes.
Here is a link to a new plug which also has a separate retaining plate, although not obvious how the two work together. My plug rubber cover and cable cover are like this but the plug body is different.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYPE-W ... 7675.l2557

I am also confused because DMG sell what looks like the same thing split in two as a plug and socket

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Thu May 09, 2013 9:07 pm

@Angus - You may well be right - perhaps it was the socket that had screws... it was quite a while ago.

@Steve - The ebay one is plug socket and support plate and i think the Dave Manners one is too

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Fri May 10, 2013 8:23 am

I am still confused as to what the suppliers are selling - is it just the plug or the socket as well.
When I have referred to things the socket is the item fixed to the bonnet. It is a male type (pins sticking out). The plug is attached to the wiring and is of the female type (holes for pins to engage into).

Just in case I don't have a standard connector here are pics of mine.

First the socket:

Then the plug:

The plug definitely looks like Chris's pics but they both look different from the new items.

Also what about the plug retaining plate - was it standard and where is that fixed with its two screw holes. Can it only be put on before the plug is wired up?

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Fri May 10, 2013 8:44 am

the triangular plate has 3 holes and it goes on the backside of the bonnet panel (i.e. behind the socket) - you can use the old one :)

BUT... the plug you show is not original/correct as the pins are not supposed to be uniformly spread like that - they have a staggered patten which prevents the plug being inserted incorrectly. Assuming that it fits the socket - then that too is wrong and needs to be swapped out - again no big deal to do.

I will unplug mine take a picture for you...

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Fri May 10, 2013 9:12 am

Here you go...

You will see the top 3 connectors are closer together and there is a clear gap between those and the four below. The rubber shield also has a bump on it that goes on the top to help you know the right way up.

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Fri May 10, 2013 5:25 pm

Chris

Many thanks for the pics. I assume yours was a nice new plug/socket with new wiring as well.

I think I understand the pictures of the new ones for sale. The plug part is shown connected into the socket and it is the back of the socket which can be seen with the yellow ring showing. This is then what would be seen looking thru the bonnet from the front.

I eased off the bakelite front of my plug but it is reluctant to pull out more than about 5mm presumably because there is no slack in the wires behind. I didn't want to pull it too hard in case I broke some wires. Any way I have tweaked each of the 8 connectors with thin pliers to make them a tighter fit with the socket pins. Not brilliant but better than it was.

I have the impression that to fit a new plug & socket I would have to cut the wires as they come out of the plug.

Whether mine is original or not is a moot point. It has probably been on the car from the mid 70s when it was taken off the road for 30 years. Is it a possibility that the new plugs are an improved design?

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Fri May 10, 2013 8:13 pm

Yessir - all the wiring (and connectors) on my car are new.

As you say original or not is moot... but you are right about the pictures they do indeed show the plug and socket connected together.

What makes sliding the bakelite back difficult is the rubber sleeve thing it really doesn't want to move and if yours is like mine was it may well be strapped to the bonnet support frame as well which means it CANT move.

If you do buy a new plug-socket then you can simply cut the old sleeve to get at the wires and away you go. The new plug matches my 1964 one so I can only assume that is correct and may be why people are suggesting your one might be wrong. Ultimately as long as you insert your one correctly there is no problem.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Fri May 10, 2013 9:41 pm

vikla wrote: Whether mine is original or not is a moot point. It has probably been on the car from the mid 70s when it was taken off the road for 30 years. Is it a possibility that the new plugs are an improved design?

You've got the original style, Chris has an 'incorrect' repro. Both are keyed if you use your bonce but I suppose Chris's is more idiot proof. But since you have now resolved your lighting issue by correctly inserting the original plug so the large and small pins line up and it goes fully home, what's the problem? You don't need to touch it again until the next big bonnet- off overhaul?

Pete

paulj · Post by **paulj** » Sat May 11, 2013 9:09 am

I was shocked at the price of this
so when rebuilding the car I looked for something to use

A caravan/trailer plug and socket did the job
using the old shrouds,
using the larger pins for headlamps, 3 years use no trouble.
about ?20 most outlets
regards Paul

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sat May 11, 2013 11:54 am

Sensible choice under the circumstances. Chris's part looks well made also.

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