Uncharted territory

Tommy P · Post by **Tommy P** » Tue May 14, 2013 3:40 pm

A very long Hello from a somewhat nervous newbie.
I have just entered, what is for me, the uncharted territory of E-Type Jaguar and I'm a little nervous about where it might lead.
I'll give you a very brief history of Tommy P. I was 10 years old when I first saw a beautiful Red, E-Type DHC. It was July 1964, so I guess it must have been a 3.8. I'll never forget that moment, we were on a family holiday in Torquay and I fell in love with it. Mum and Dad struggled to drag me away from looking at it's mesmerising beauty. Fortunately, because we were on holiday and I always got a little treat or present, I was dragged to a toy shop, where I chose a red scale model XKE by Revell. Happy days.
Since that day, I've never fallen out of love with the E-Type, in all it's forms.

I've also had many cars since then too, but either by timing or circumstance, I have never had an opportunity to own an E-Type. This is where it starts to get a bit scary, because I'm 95% sure that the time to own an E-Type of my own is very close. The fruits of my labour are close to fruition. I'm doing my best to research the subject, but can't help worrying about the minefield out there. So I have one or two initial questions, which I prefer to get from a knowledgeable and experiential source such as this forum.

I've searched the forum for opinions on LHD v RHD, in particular values. I can see the subjectivity in location to this, but does location really matter (I'm located in the UK). I was also considering this issue with regard to buying "a Californian" rust free and either having a conversion from LHD to RHD or leaving it alone (would this affect values).
Just a footnote to the above question. While I would initially consider buying an E-Type for the pure love and joy of owning one and driving it (at long last), I still want to remain practical, as there would eventually come the day that I can no longer drive it and I wouldn't want to sit there in my wheelchair and admire it in my garage. So from that practical perspective, it would then become a (possible) future investment.

Down to some facts and my next question. Given the choice I would prefer a DHC and to narrow it down a little more, would prefer not to have a V12. It would be nice to have a car that needs very little work, apart from necessary maintenance and is ready to enjoy from day one. With a budget of between ?50K - ?80K. What sort of quality can I really expect?

Although it would be nice to play with something straight out of the box, which is preferable, I would not be against getting something that required a degree of renovation. Having said that, I would be very cautious, due to getting my fingers burnt some years ago with an Austin Healey 3000. Long story short. I had a complete AH 3000 and took it to someone who was recommended. I inspected his work and set up beforehand and was impressed. Three years later and after a court case, which I lost due to a very inept solicitor on my side, I got the car back in boxes, minus some parts. Enough said!

I've only just started my searches and considerations, so please excuse my limited knowledge and questioning. Any and all advice would be gratefully received and absorbed.

Apologies for the ramble. Cheers Tommy P

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Tue May 14, 2013 3:48 pm

Welcome Tommy

50-80 will get you a nice Etype, the amount of work required will depend on what type of Etype you go for as some versions are less sought after and hence for the same money you can get a better car. i.e. a convertible early 3.8 will cost a lot more than a V12 2+2...

You will find the forum very helpful and active so choose your favourite version of Etype and then we'll help you with what to look for etc.

Post by **Heuer** » Tue May 14, 2013 4:20 pm

Welcome Tommy

No shortage of advice and opinion here and there are several members who started their trail to E-Type ownership by posting on the Forum and detailing either their restoration or running for the fun of it. I suggest you start by reading this if you have not already done so: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=890

S1 cars are getting hard to find and are expensive, especially the OTS. A good S1 4.2 OTS should be within your budget but prices are rising. The S2 cars are superb value at the moment and they were better developed by Jaguar.

If you find a car you are thinking of buying please start a post about it and get members to at least give it an appraisal from photos. It can be a bit dispiriting as the comments can be quite critical but it will work in your own interest. For a start you could have a look at this S2 OTS: http://www.mossjaguar.com/cars-for-sale.html and http://www.mossjaguar.com/in-the-workshop.html

It is owned by Angus Moss, one of our Forum Moderators, and is up for sale. I have no doubt Angus can convert it to RHD and do any other work you wanted (change of colour?) and still come within your budget. Worth making contact with Angus anyway because he knows more about E-Type's than almost anyone else I have come across so he is the man to take with you when you think you have found the ideal car.

Tommy P · Post by **Tommy P** » Tue May 14, 2013 5:16 pm

Thanks for the replies.
The links were very helpful and made interesting reading.
The 69 yellow OTS looks very appealing.
Looks like Angus will be worth contacting in the future.
Cheers

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Tue May 14, 2013 6:32 pm

I shall put in my two penn'orth : -

A LHD car in the UK has drawbacks, mostly connected with rearwards vision, but to convert from LHD to RHD is not the most major job, and thus if you find a good LHD car I would not let it put you off

Do not under any circumstances buy sight unseen from the USA or anywhere else for that matter . Sometimes the cars don't exist, more often they are misdescribed, and sometimes really unscrupulous shippers sell you one car but deliver a different - and invariably worse - one

Do not be seduced by a "dry state " car without seeing it and thoroughly inspecting it . Californian cars, for example , may be perfectly good if they have lived in the high plateau, but can be just as rotten as a UK car if they have spent 40 years by the sea

Also, the car may just have come from California, but may have spent much of its life elsewhere . Some of the southern states, most particularly Florida and Louisiana , produce real rot boxes because of the very high humidity

Another thing to consider with USA cars is that the spec is often unsatisfactory for European conditions . In particular, cars with the 3.54 axle are woefully undergeared compared with the 3.07 , ( and this affects not merely cruising ability but also makes the intermediate gears ridiculously short compared with the performance of the car ) and most later US cars have the twin Stromberg setup rather than the the SUs which is nothing like as competent and does not have the stunning underbonnet look of the earlier cars

It is bodywork and to a lesser extent interior condition which are the key to selecting a good car . Provided a car is mechanically complete , mechanical problems are not that difficult to solve and usually do not cost a fortune to put right provided you are in a position to do some of the work yourself

Your budget should easily produce you a good and smart driving car which will give many years of service without major attention, but do not kid yourself that spending more means that you get a better car. As David ( heuer ) has pointed out the S2 cars represent the best value and in many ways are the most practical, with the earlier weak spots of cooling and brakes having been well sorted by the time they were introduced . BUT, you do want one which is converted to UK spec

A golden rule with Es is look at as many as you can . You will learn a tremendous amount from it , and you will also get a feel for what it is that you really want. Also, to understand the cars it is worth a visit to Hutson's or CMC to have a look at cars that are being rebuilt, because that ( particularly at Hutsons where they make many of the body parts and will in fact produce you a complete shell ) will give you a clear of idea of what to look for in bodywork. It cannot be emphasised strongly enough that you can get nice glossy Es which in fact are rotten to the core, and it is this which is the real trap for the unwary . Sills and floors are not difficult to replace, but a rotten bulkhead is a very nasty - and expensive - proposition

Good Hunting !

Tommy P · Post by **Tommy P** » Tue May 14, 2013 7:55 pm

A good interesting penn'orth thanks. I had thought about going over to the states and taking a look, but what you say about the US spec cars is significant. I would say that it seems like a series ll is a good option as a drivers car, which is what I'm looking for.

Post by **Heuer** » Tue May 14, 2013 9:06 pm

Tommy

That S2 I pointed out to you was selected by Pete Crespin (author and E-Type guru) and sent to Angus to detail. Provenance like that is hard to come by!

Tommy P · Post by **Tommy P** » Tue May 14, 2013 9:35 pm

Thanks David. It is a great looking car, but it's going to be at least a month before finances become available, which is why I'm researching now and will hopefully be better informed by the time I begin to seriously look at any cars in the flesh.

Post by **1954Etype** » Wed May 15, 2013 7:45 am

Tommy, I'm happy for you to come over to me to go through the do's and dont' s when looking at E types. I have 3 at the moment, the FHC is undergoing full restoration which will be good to illustrate what to look for. Let me know if you are interested.

Tommy P · Post by **Tommy P** » Wed May 15, 2013 5:44 pm

Thats a great offer Angus and I will take you up on it. It will be great to take a look over your current renovation as well as your other cars. Thanks
If you prefer, you can PM me, I can then get in touch to make some arrangements when it's suitable.
Tom

Post by **1954Etype** » Wed May 15, 2013 10:04 pm

Tommy P wrote:Thats a great offer Angus and I will take you up on it. It will be great to take a look over your current renovation as well as your other cars. Thanks
If you prefer, you can PM me, I can then get in touch to make some arrangements when it's suitable.
Tom

Give me a ring tomorrow Tom and we can sort out a day.

Tommy P · Post by **Tommy P** » Tue May 21, 2013 6:12 pm

Just done a 380 mile round trip from home to Moss Jaguar and I have to say it was worth every mile. Very impressed by what I saw. So I?d like to give a huge thanks to Angus for the hospitality, invaluable information and advice given during my visit.
All the cogs in my head are now spinning and I?ve got decisions to make!
Cheers Angus

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue May 21, 2013 8:11 pm

Thanks Tom, it was nice to meet you. Glad you found it useful.

Tommy P · Post by **Tommy P** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:09 am

I have finally got an E Type. I collected her on Saturday 3rd of August.
She's a 1968 series 2 4.2 OTS. Rebuilt around 20 years ago, but still in good condition due to her fastidious owner of 25 years, who looked after her well and always garaged her in a carcoon.
Since her rebuild she has done just over 31000 miles and has recently undergone a full engine rebuild 2000 miles ago.
The drive home was fantastic and I found myself wishing it was further, so we took a detour to extend the journey. Once home, she was driven into the garage and trial fitted over the small hydraulic ramp, which had to be adjusted for exhaust clearance.
Then I just couldn't help it, I backed her out of the garage and did another 20 miles! Unfortunately, it rained on Sunday.
Anyway here she is.

I've already put black and white period number plates back on.

I have the matching carpets, these are only there for protection.

Not the original rocker covers, but I have them also.

Finally, the best advice I was given, was to chat to Angus Moss before buying. It was a wise and invaluable decision to do so. Thank-you Angus for coming up North last month and looking the car over for me.
Cheers
Tom

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:12 am

Yes, very nice looking, and a lovely colour scheme as well

Simon P · Post by **Simon P** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:05 pm

Looks lovely!

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:38 pm

Great looking car and you know it is right after an Angus inspection. Enjoy it!

Post by **1954Etype** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:35 pm

It was a genuine pleasure Tom. Glad you are sorted now run that bloody engine in and start using it!

Tommy P · Post by **Tommy P** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:18 pm

That's exactly what I intend to do, along with some of those jobs that need to be done.

Post by **Heuer** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:33 pm

Are you going to do change the rear end to use Lotus Elan light clusters, rectangular number plate and S1 resonators as Angus has done on his current restoration? http://mossjaguar.com/in-the-workshop.html

Personally I think it makes a huge difference to the rear perspective of the car and I can't for the life of me understand why Jaguar did not do it that way, given it would have been cheaper. Maybe Mr Arthur Whittaker, Jaguar Chief Buyer and miser, was on holiday

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