Phil Hallewell Wire Wheels

[Curtis Bay]

I have just done an internet search for wire wheel manufacturers and suppliers in the UK and turned up a few I have not heard mentioned on this forum. Does anyone have any experience of Phil Hallewell and the wire wheels he builds?

http://www.pjhallewellengineering.co.uk/forsale.html

[JEP41]

Hi Curtis,

I was at Stoneleigh last Sunday and he had a stand there displaying his wheels, they appear to be excellent. :D

[neil4444]

Hi,

Has anyone tried the Hallewell wire wheels yet ?

I'm interested as I will soon need to purchase a set and would like to buy British. Hence considering these or MWS and would be nice to know how the two compare.

Regards,

Neil

[PeterCrespin]

He talks sense, although I'd be surprised if anyone sold a 72 spoke Jag wheel that WASN'T cross-three laced. Having said that, I haven't looked at any non-Jag wheels lately.

I think it's great that someone wants to support British industry so I'd go for it anyway, regardless of whether anyone here has already tried his wheels...

I suppose you never know with show displays though - they might be hand-picked examples. Next thing you know, a car maker would give specially tweaked cars to the press to achieve the magic ton-fifty.

Surely not?

[Heuer]

Got to be better than the other offering. I had a set of MWS and the spokes were continually coming loose. Had to send them back to MWS eventually as so many were slack - cost ?100 each to have them 'reset'!

[lyons]

Had a set for the last 20 years or so. Still excellent.

[neil4444]

Having spoken to Phil this morning I've ordered a set (4) 6" competitions from him - I'll report back on findings.
In the meantime I'm not sure what to do about a spare. I've read within these pages that a 6" wheel won't fit into the spare wheel compartment. Is this because of the rim itself or is it dependant on what tyre you fit ? My current thinking is to go for a Dunlop 185 tyre on the 6" rims so as to fill the wheel arch but not compromise handling. Would this fit in there ?
Alternatively has anyone had the spare wheel compartment made deeper ?
I guess my only other alternative is to use one my existing 5" rims as the spare.

Regards,

Neil

[neil4444]

Hutsons have just told me I can't make the well deeper so forget that idea :o) !

[1954Etype]

I carry a standard wheel and tyre as a spare based on the fact that modern cars use a space saver which is a lot smaller.

[Heuer]

Cancel your order and get a set of 5" rims with 185 tyres! With wide wheels and modern section tyres:

1. Your ride height will about 1" lower
2. Your steering will be heavier and you will lose sensitivity
3. The car will tramline whenever it gets the opportunity
4. Unsprung weight will increase after Jaguar went to all that trouble to reduce it (inboard disc brakes at rear)
5. Ride will be harsher
6. Spare wheel will have to be 5"
7. Getting the 6" wheels off the rear can be difficult (think puncture, side of road, raining) and where do you put it once you have put the 5" spare on.
8. Modern low profile tyres are designed for cars with variable camber geometry which the E-Type does not have
9. Car might look butch from front or rear but it will be wimpy from the side because lower section tyres do not fill the arch like the 185's
10. You will be slower A to B than before (the grounding risk alone will make you back off on anything other than a motorway!)

I have to admit the Michelin XVS 185's on 5" do look a bit skinny on my OTS but the handling is incredible. Interestingly my FHC has Dunlop 185 SP's on 5" and they look a lot fatter because of the tread pattern. Handling nowhere near the Michelin's though. If you are wedded to the hot-hatch look then at least go for 5.5" with 185 tyres.

Incidentally what are "competition" wire wheels as distinct from ordinary wire wheels and what do they bring to the party?

My CV:

Yokohama 225/65 on 6" - dreadful in the wet, dead steering
Pirelli P6000 on 6" - good wet weather performance, steering weighted up hugely in corners, low speed steering abysmal. Tread pattern way out of keeping for a classic car
Michelin XVS 185 on 5" - nirvana! Now on my third set (rears only last 8,000 miles with me), finger light steering, arrow straight at speed, superb ride, not grounded once since fitting
Dunlop SP Sport 185 on 5" - look a lot wider than the Michelins, not as confidence inspiring, only HR rated, good compromise for all round use

[christopher storey]

I cannot agree more strongly with Heuer . When I started out with an E in 1993, it came with 205/70 on 5.5 inch wheels. It was a nightmare with heavy and lifeless steering, difficulty changing a rear wheel, and nastiest of all, on full lock it would foul the wheelarches at the front so that the car tried to climb up the wheel. A change to 185 HR 15 Vredesteins was a revelation ( tell your insurer - it does not in my experience cost anything ) or if you wish you can go to 185 VR 15 in the tyre brands David mentions

[PeterCrespin]

Incidentally what are "competition" wire wheels as distinct from ordinary wire wheels and what do they bring to the party?

Competition wheels will be the triple-laced version Jaguar sold from the E's debut, for use in, err, competition.

Typically 5.5" and used on the rear, but can be fitted anywhere. The third row of spokes is further outboard on the rim which widens the base of the lacing triangle, as it were, to give superior lateral stiffness. The look subtly different without being quite so 'in your face' as centre-laced wheels.

I think this Halliwell guy had a photo on his web site but if not you should turn one up pretty easily.

Pete

[Heuer]

But if you are going to enter your car in a competitive race surely the only sensible option is to fit solid wheels as supplied in period by Dunlop, Wolfrace and Magna by J. A. Pearce? I assume all wire wheels now produced are triple laced - never seen 'double laced'?

Forgot to add to my list of issues with wide wheels:

11. You need to remove the rear bump stops as they will foul the wider rims. You also need to check the rear shocks are fitted with internal rubber bump stops (they are usually an optional extra) to avoid damage.

12. The offset of the 6" wheels used on the S3 cars is different to that required for the S1/2 cars. Check the wheels you use are not simply designed for the S3 otherwise they will foul the rear wheel arches and rub on front lock as noted by Christopher.

[neil4444]

Thanks Gents for all the advice.

I will just check with Phil that the wheels have the correct offset for the Series 1 and with Hutsons to ensure no issues with getting the rears on/off. As for the handling characteristics, etc, I don't want to drive it, I just want to look at it :)

Plus the best thing I can probably do to improve steering weight is to lose a couple of stone myself ! :D

[kingzetts]

Far be it from me to disagree with David but I am going to defend 6" rims. In my view many of his points are (validly) addressed at wider tyres and have nothing to do with the wider wheel itself.

I had 5" and have now fitted Dayton centre-laced 6", running the Vredestein 185x15 tyres. I have a standard 5" with 185x15 as spare.

The 6" wheels with these tyres do not foul the rear bump stops, there's about 5mm clearance between tyre sidewall and bump stop on full drop.

I noticed no change in steering feel, ride quality or tramlining whatsoever (that's virtually all down to the tyre width & profile and not the wheel width).

The 6" wheels are not noticeably heavier than the 5" - they're identical apart from an extra 1" x 48" strip of thin stainless steel or chromed steel in the rim. Weight differences between tyre brands will be greater.

Yes, they are a little bit more tricky to get on and off on the rear, but perfectly do-able with patience, although I have had to partially deflate the tyre to do so at least once. This is not a real-world problem as if you are dealing with a puncture you will be dealing with removing a deflated tyre and fitting the inflated 5" spare, while if you are in the workshop you will have access to a means of re-inflation. I will concede that some cars may be trickier in this regard than others as the fit of the wheel arch panels can vary in original and restored cars, I can only speak to my own experience.

The boot floor will still sit flat when you put the spare in the well - again its the width of the tyre which dictates this not the wheel and although the tire sidewall is slightly wider when sitting on the wider wheel its not enough to matter.

And to me at least they look 1000% more attractive on the S1. Standard rubber on 6" is the way to go in my view.

[neil4444]

John,

Many thanks for your response. All of what you say is exactly what I was hoping to achieve with the mix of 6" wheel with 185x15 tyre.

Cheers for the info,

Neil

[Heuer]

The normal reason for fitting 6" wheels is to access a wider choice of rubber in modern sizes. The 185 tyres are normally rated for 5", 5.5" and 6" wheels but you need to check with the manufacturer. When so fitted you will find the side walls are firmer because the tyre is 'stretched' to fit and that can benefit steering response if not ride quality. Probably the best combination is 5.5" wheels with 185 tyres as it gives the perfect balance of ride and steering. If you already have 6" wheels then fitting good 185 tyres is the way to go but when buying new I would argue there is little point in ordering the 6" simply because you are adding a few problems and cost with no tangible benefit. I doubt you could tell the difference between a car with 5" and 6" wheels except when fitted with the same tyres. In fact I was convinced my FHC was fitted with 6" wheels when I bought it and it was only after checking the invoices and measuring up was I sure they were 5" - the difference was down to the tyres (Dunlop SP Sport 185's).

So I agree with John, maybe I should have been clearer in my post

[Dave K]

I carry a standard wheel and tyre as a spare based on the fact that modern cars use a space saver which is a lot smaller.

I also carry a standard wheel as a spare.

I have 225 Pirellis on the rear and have no problem getting them on or off when fully inflated.
I don't really think it makes that much difference to the handling or at least not that I've noticed. Looks great though and thats what really matters :D

Dave

[neil4444]

I did initially intend to buy 5.5" as I too felt this was the best all round compromise but on speaking with Phil Hallewell he advised he is only doing the 6" now (as he advised he has had very little call for the other sizes). I didn't want to go with MWS or Dayton and don't have deep enough pockets for the Borranis just now hence I landed at decision on the 6" Hallewells. When I spoke to Phil he was well aware of the issues of correct offset for series 1 and he also reassured me of decent back-up customer service should I encounter any problems with the rims/spokes/etc. I was never intending to fit modern dimensioned rubber, I'll be going for Dunlop, Michelin or Pirelli Cinturatos (depending on which are best suited to the 6" rim).

[kingzetts]

I think for me the big visual difference is between standard lacing and centre lacing, the latter having a much wider outer rim which gives at least the illusion of being wider and filling the arches better. I doubt fitting standard laced 6" wheels would achieve as much and I may well not have been able to tell the difference. For me personally the 6" centre laced was worth the cost.