Engine Rebuild

loztincyberspace · Post by **loztincyberspace** » Fri May 09, 2014 8:51 am

Hello All, First post on the forum wondering if any one can help with general guidance and advice.

I have a series 3 V12 which due to a number of issues is being restored,to give a brief history,
My car was a usa model but during it's history has moved back to the UK and been converted to RHD and while registered in 72 is a 73 car/engine that has been altered and was running fine for a year or so until two of the valve seats decided to take an excursion through the engine and the torsion bars detach from the floor! the car is undergoing a full restoration to replace poor repairs and hidden problems (i'm sure wee all know about those!)

I am currently rebuilding the engine and have got most of it back together. New liners/ pistons skimmed heads new valves and seats cleaning and replacing the problem I have is that being an USA Spec car it has or to be more precise should have a lot of emissions control on it... a lot has been removed (inc the air con) in it's past but a lot was left on such as pipes from the air intake box that go nowhere and the what I assume is Exhaust Gas Recirculation pipes on the back of the carbs that are in place but appear blocked.

my intention for the car is to drive it and enjoy it I am not a stickler for absolute concourse, original parts needing to be there just to make it right , and i suppose the gist of my question (Finally I'm sure you are all glad to here) is what can I get rid of/ replace and block off to make the car more English early spec give it the power it was intended to have. Also for example with the EGR system that appears to be attached to the exhaust heat shield how should it operate, what is the consequence of removing bits.

A lot of information I'm sorry but it appears to be a bit of a mish/mash and whilst some books are very helpful there appears so many changes that finding a lot of this out is quite complicated.

Anything else please ask i have some photos from when it was dismantled but need to sort through them if they will assist.

Yours Gratefully
Lawrence
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MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Fri May 09, 2014 9:43 am

Dear Lawrence,

The US tan coloured Owners Manual shows and explains how all of the extra parts work. Purchase a copy along with the Parts Manual to see how it all fits together. In the mean time, visit a few owners who live locally and look at their cars in the flesh - it'll make a far deeper impression than looking at pictures.

FWIW, I am near Guildford.

kind regards
Marek

PeterE · Post by **PeterE** » Fri May 09, 2014 4:31 pm

Lawrence,

You are welcome to look at my S3, it is an original late UK model (only 100 made after it according to the VIN) and although an automatic the top engine plumbing is pretty much identical to a manual and as far as I can tell is as it was when it left Browns Lane in 1974.

Marek?s advice is good; to understand how these cars were put together and maintained you need three books, the Parts Catalogue, the Repair Operation Manual and the Handbook, all are available from the usual outlets. On the face of it shelling out around a hundred Quid for all three seems a lot to pay but less than the cost of a full tank of V Power

.

I?m near Redhill (RH1).

Regards,

loztincyberspace · Post by **loztincyberspace** » Fri May 09, 2014 4:44 pm

Thanks for the advice guys I have a US (TAN) spec owners manual and parts list on order to compliment my UK (Blue) owners manual and V12 repair operation manual.

Peter E I think viewing a contemporary UK car would be a great help to determine what had been done and what should be done! could you let me know when it would be convenient to arrange something.

Regards

L

PeterE · Post by **PeterE** » Fri May 09, 2014 5:37 pm

Lawrence,

That's good, I just sent you a PM

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Fri May 09, 2014 6:07 pm

The last of the S3 domestic cars had a lot of the pipework and emission control systems as fitted to the USA spec cars. I was surprised when I photographed the black commemorative S3 at the Jag Browns Lane museum (quite a while ago!) to find that it was virtually identical to my late '72 Californian car in the pipework department.

My car was stripped of all it's emissions guff, and put back to the specification of a '72 domestic car. That also meant replacing the manifolds and carburetors, as well as the low compression pistons...only worth doing if you are rebuilding the engine.

I can photograph my engine if that would help.

loztincyberspace · Post by **loztincyberspace** » Fri May 09, 2014 6:43 pm

Mark E.
The engine is in bits at the moment so pictures would be very handy, as i said i think some of the work has been done but i'm not sure what and what has been part done for example the pipe that exits the air filter box terminates after 3" and did nothing so as many pictures of a converted engine would be a great help in getting me in the right direction. [/img]

MLBS3V12 · Post by **MLBS3V12** » Sat May 10, 2014 9:16 am

Haven't you think to place an EFI v12 instead of the 4 carbs bringing a few more horsepower as well as an easier driving and a lower fuel consumption?

MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Sat May 10, 2014 12:08 pm

If you want to see an etype v12 fuel injected engine drop round some time. I'm also running lpg - in fact, I only use petrol about 5% of the time according to my recepits.

kind regards
Marek

SEJohnson95 · Post by **SEJohnson95** » Sat May 10, 2014 1:28 pm

I saw someone's V12 at Stoneleigh this year who converted his engine to run on SUs as well as removing the emission control stuff. He said the engine immediately sounded and ran much better. Might be worth bearing in mind.

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Sat May 10, 2014 2:27 pm

Here are some photos of the engine. Not sure how much it will help!

UK specification carburettors and manifolds, but as you can see, some of the original pipework remains with 'blanked-off' bits. I must get around to sorting that out...only had the car for 16 years!

I think that the guys make a good point above, to consider going the SU / Injection route if you are considering buying UK specification carburettors and manifolds.

I can't see a lot of advantage of the SU option, but the injection option does appeal in terms of reliability and fuel consumption. A couple of chums with injected S3s are getting 25mpg, and the conversion doesn't cost a lot if you get hold of an old XJS and use the bits from that.

It depend what you want to do with the car though. If your going to drive it for less than 2000 miles a year, the difference between 25mpg and 18mpg doesn't make a massive saving.

The injected engine is so simple as well!! Here's my XJR-s 6.0 engine bay, looking very busy.

loztincyberspace · Post by **loztincyberspace** » Sat May 10, 2014 9:16 pm

Well thanks for all the replies and the info guys, I had ruled out going to injection for now due to the cost and the fact i have a lot of the parts.

MarkE
The pics are a great help i can see a lot of parts that have been left on mine my carbs and manifolds appear to be the same type as yours, are you running lumenition as well?
I notice the air delivery pump on mine and the associated pipework is already removed

I have been comparing your pics to the ones I took on dismantling and your engine bay is far less cluttered!

I have also been talking to a company that makes kits for SU and Zenith and they are advising on some bits.

any other advice greatly received as
I progress i will keep a record of what i do and try and post it here or link to it to help future builders

Cheers Guys

*Rob* · Post by ***Rob*** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:36 pm

I'm interested in the progress as I am about to do the same.

*Rob* · Post by ***Rob*** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:42 pm

Question about the air pipes on top of the engine.
When I remove these pipes how can I block off the holes that remain?

loztincyberspace · Post by **loztincyberspace** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:30 pm

The progress was going well. But progress stalled while i sorted the rear suspension so i could have a rolling shell... then i started looking in detail at the front sub frame for cleaning and inspection.

I have however determined with a great deal of help from Peter that most of it is surplus to requirement! and the end result is much cleaner and simpler.

so far I have utilised 2 main methods of closing off parts brass 'bungs' to close off exhaust gas recirc parts and some of the extra take offs from the pipes, Some of these i made an good tight push fit others i made a slide fit and soldered in place. the second being bungs in the ends of short pieces of pipe and jubilee clips (old bolts can work well as bungs for this esp in stainless)

I was fortunate not to have the pipes that go into the engine (I assume you mean parts c.35775/4 in the catalogue and on SNG) my instinct would be to leave them alone and block off the end with a bung; However if you want them out the way I would consider cutting
them off short and fill with solder or epoxy but you would need to investigate so as to ensure nothing could foul up or melt and cause problems...these are just my initial thoughts and someone with more knowledge could hopefully offer a more positive suggestion.

anything else please feel free to ask

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Engine Rebuild

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