Rear Crankshaft Oil Seal

[iandec]

:?

I bought my 74' Series 3 from the US with 45k on the clock, it has now developed the usual oil leak, which is getting progressively worse and I have to do something about it.

First: I intend to take it over to the UK from Norway, which entails driving a distance of 450km. I think the oil seal will last over this distance as I shall frequently check the oil level. Please may I have an opnioin on this.

Secondly: I have spoken to 2 firms in the UK about the replacing the oil seal, one highly recommended replacing the old seal with a modern "Lip Seal" whilst the second declined to do this as they felt the old seal was more forgiving when wearing. Does any one have any experience on this subject.? If so, some information on both seals would be very useful. Also, can somebody recommend an experienced garage located around the South as I shall be shipping the car into Felixstowe.

Thirdly: Since the engine will have to be removed from the car I thought I could treat myself to a respray so the recommended garage should also be able to handle this.

Fourthly: I intend to have the present exhaust system replaced by a Stainless Steel one. Should I also have the Manifolds replaced at the same time even though there is nothing wrong with them. I feel I should as "Galvanic corrosion" will occur.

Thanks in advance.

Ian

[Heuer]

Ian

Please give Harry at E-Type UK a call as he is based in Kent and has vast knowledge of the S3 (along with other E-Types) and can no doubt accommodate your requirements and do a spectacular job. Click the logo in the top left of this page.

A properly sized and fitted rope seal works well and many specialists refuse to fit any other, as you are finding out. The lip seal sounds good and indeed does work but the process is irreversible as it involves grinding the crankshaft. The good news is you will know immediately if the lip seal has worked - no leaks. If it has not it will fail in a spectacular way! Fitting the lip seal also means cutting it in half and super-gluing it back together. I went through this with my S1 last year and CMC refused to fit anything other than a rope seal based on their extensive experience. I went with their recommendation.

[iandec]

David,

Thanks for the info. I shall contact Harry.

I have a lot of experience with seals, especially high pressure applications. You mentioned that they cut the seal in half and then superglue it together, which is definite "no no", my mind was instantly made up. Surely we can come up with a better alternative. If I could get some drwaings of the seal housing I could try to come up with an alternative solution.

Cheers,

Ian

[MarkE]

You would think so! When the seal failed on my S3 I desperately wanted to fit a better solution, but at the time (about 10 years ago) Rob Beere was just trying to get it sorted, and I haven't heard of any success stories since.

If you are ever tempted to try the lip seal approach, get a crankshaft from an early XJS to machine, or a later short engine (from 1989) which already has the lip seal fitted. They are the HE engine, and you'll need to change the pistons to match your flat head...nothing personal!

I drove my car for over 1000 miles with the leaking seal, and it didn't seem to get any worse. It is very worrying however when you stop after a run. The oil drips straight onto the exhaust, and smoke starts to come out of the bonnet louvers at quite a rate.

[JEP41]

I am building a 3.8 litre engine for my C-Type copy at present and after talking to Rob Beere and Dave Butcher decided to go the lip seal route as most of the engines being built for Racing these days are using the lipseal. Dave has been using them for the past three years with no problems in his racing engines. The Lip Seal is very snug in the seal housing which should keep the seal intact after assemply
I have superglued both Lip Seals and O'rings and used in the Gas Turbines and Gas compressors we use in the offshore oil and Gas industry with no problems.

[AussieEtype]

A side issue related to the rear oil seal on a V12. When my car was on the road the rear seal did leak a little, happily marked its territory but was all manageable.

When I took the car off the road I started it up every few weeks so the seal would have been kept moist. However for the past few years, the fuel tank has been out of the car so I have not been able to run the engine but I have not turned it over either. I assume the actual damage to a dry seal is the friction it receives when the engine starts up and burns the rope due to lack of lubrication.

I will be starting work on the car again soon and will need to start the engine and I really do not want to replace the seal. To try to lubricate the seal I was thinking about overfilling the sump with a cheap watery oil and raising the car to a nose high attitude and leaving it for a few months so that the seal will be exposed to the oil and hopefully soak up a bit. Of course this oil will be removed and the correct stuff put it in prior to the start.

Any ideas on this? Anyone done it? Will it work?

Thanks

Garry

[AussieEtype]

I guess no one has tried it.

[Heuer]

No experience of the V12 but on the XK engines the rotation of the crank draws oil to the seal. Before installing a new rope seal it has to be soaked in oil for 24 hours because even extended use will not get it fully 'wet'. So in answer to your question - no I don't think tilting the car will work!

[WDRV12]

We have found a solution to making the repair in the car that means that the car is only in dock for 2 days . This we can do on any V12 E-Type . (But on the xj's we still have to remove the engine .The lip seal crank from an XJS/Late type engine will only fit a late type block !! and to fit a lip seal in an original V12E requires (As per XK type the same ) machining of the crankshaft and removing the scroll ! The XK Lip seal conversion has a new housing and split sea.
This is a std V12E block with rope seal
l

This is a Late Lip seal type block as used with the late 5.3's and 6.0l engines

[Aldeburgh]

Harry at e-Type UK dealt with my rear main oil seal last year. Went the lip-seal route. Seems to have worked well but the engine builder did have to machine the crank as described above, so the process is irreversible in effect.

The decision was made on the advice of the engine builder as he typically prepared racing V12s with the lip-seal. Given his long and trouble-free experience with the modern seals we felt that was the right way to go.

If it all goes Pete Tong i'll let you know...

[Sjmmarsh]

Aldeburgh

I presume no update means the seal is holding?

I have a leaky S3 that really needs attention - I have put in 3l of oil in the last 1000 miles - so am looking for solutions that work. I still need to work out where the leak is though. Some oil is getting on the manifold judging by the wisps of smoke from the bonnet when i stop at a roundabout, which suggests it could be coming from the cam cover as well.

I need to clean it up and find the sources - where are the usual suspect found?

Steve

[PeterCrespin]

You've just listed some of them. Starting from the top there are a few extra potential sources on V12s. The cam covers and feed banjos are like the XK but there's an extra (gasket-less) joint between the tappet block and head, plus extra banjos and threaded joints where the OP sender and switch sit in the valley at the back. There's also and extra sump joint between the sandwich plate and block. Buy a couple of cans of carb cleaner, spray everywhere until bone dry and spotless, then start her up and watch above and below for leaks. If nothing obvious, take for a drive and keep stopping to see. I might not be the main seal.

I'm not sure if the later lip seal parts used from the early nineties 5.3 to the end of 6.0 production in 96 are transferable, but you might struggle to buy those parts even if they were.

Pete

[Sjmmarsh]

It wasn't the main seal - when the oil filter had been changed last time (before I bought it) the O ring had not been put in....

There is still a slight leak somewhere but it is now drops of oil rather than puddles so probably a case of TADTS!

Steve

[DB49]

We have found a solution to making the repair in the car that means that the car is only in dock for 2 days . This we can do on any V12 E-Type . (But on the xj's we still have to remove the engine .The lip seal crank from an XJS/Late type engine will only fit a late type block !! and to fit a lip seal in an original V12E requires (As per XK type the same ) machining of the crankshaft and removing the scroll ! The XK Lip seal conversion has a new housing and split sea.
This is a std V12E block with rope seal
l

This is a Late Lip seal type block as used with the late 5.3's and 6.0l engines

[Sdinse]

BUMP

We'd all like to hear about that!

[Adamski]

Hard to believe some idiot fitted the oil filter canister without checking the rubber seal and replacing it. Could have blown the oil pressure and ruined the engine.

[Tarapoochy]

I know this is an old thread, but just thought I’d mention what we managed to do with my car which had a bad oil leak from the rear crankshaft rope seal. A specialist managed to take the sump off with the engine still in the car, remove the lower seal housing, cut out the bottom half of the rope seal plus a short way into the top of it, as far as he could get out without damage. Then he cut a new rope seal to the correct missing length and put it all back together. Presumably he soaked the new seal appropriately. He warned me that it may not work, but I decided it was worth a try. This was over 2 years ago and I’ve not had a drop from there since (touch wood and fingers very much crossed). All a lot cheaper than engine out and crankshaft removed! Hope that is of interest to others with this problem.