Problem fitting new headlamp bowls - S1.5.

[Minerva]

My new headlight bowls have x3 adjusters and I think the outer one is the one to be discarded. Each adjuster has a threaded cylinder for the screws to screw into and they are welded into place. Each of these cylinders also has a rubber sleeve covering them in Manufacture. The replacement large rubber gasket is placed over the headlamp bowl aligning on the inner adjusters. Its a bit of a tight fit but with a bit fairy liquid it goes on after cutting another hole for the third (disused) adjuster.

Now the odd bit:
It isn?t possible to align x3 adjustment cylinders up with the holes in the body ? I could cut away the outer one though.

It is not possible to push the gasket over the adjusters and then push the combined gasket/adjuster into the bodywork holes.
There is simply far to much rubber protection and if I remove this protection what was the point of it anyway?
Making the hole in the body bigger would mean about 35% increase in the hole which I won?t do.

And it?s not possible to align all the adjuster cylinders with the holes in the car ? so do I cut off one of the cylinders? If so why is it there anyway?
Possibly for LHD cars ? in which case that would explain it.

It?s probably Hobsons choice in both cases ? but does anyone actually know please?
:?

[Heuer]

More info here: viewtopic.php?t=5697&highlight=headlamp+bowl

[Minerva]

Oh very quick thank you.
But I think the S1 and 1.5 must have some differences. Interesting to see I am not the only one struggling here. My bolws came from SNG recently and they still supply x3 adjusters - which we establish is wrong so that's progress!

No mention in the article of the alignment/rubber fitting problem though.
My gasket has a condom-like molding that fits over each adjuster - which in turn is already covered. The won't go into the bodywork holes like that.
It's like putting on two socks and wondering why your shoes don't fit!!

[Heuer]

Are your bowls the flat backed S1 style or the S2 style cones?

[christopher storey]

I think you will find that the bowls have 3 adjuster holes because they are not handed left and right, and thus have to be able to be fitted in either side and still match the 2 assymetric adjuster holes. I suggest that before you go any further you make a cardboard template from each side of the bonnet and try and match the holes in this to the bowls . This at least will tell you how much each is out of true

[PeterCrespin]

My gasket has a condom-like molding that fits over each adjuster - which in turn is already covered. The won't go into the bodywork holes like that. It's like putting on two socks and wondering why your shoes don't fit!!

A perfect analogy with an obvious answer in both cases, the only remaining question being which sock do you discard? The E-type bowl gaskets perform both functions, so I'd remove the pre-fitted bowl condoms.

[chrisvine]

I had the same problem fitting my bowls, although for a S2 without the flat section, and must have ordered every bowl offered by SNG! None of them matched the ones that came off the car.

In the end, I cut off all but one of the brass attachments so they would fit using the gasket with the two protrusions you mention.

You just need to make sure you have one trimming screw at the top of the head lamp and (on both sides) the horizontal trimming screw on the offside of each lamp for right hand drive cars, to enable the lamp to be directed to the near side.

The other problem I had with the bowls was the placement of the bracket to attach the springs, which was at the base of the bowl. These brackets were further up the side on the old bowls. This slight difference meant the standard springs were too short and impossible to fit. So I then had to search for suitable longer springs.

[Minerva]

Heuer - Looking at your pics again I can see that you have used the top and outer adjuster positions and not the inner one. I was told the opposite and SNG don't think it makes a difference. I can see what they mean since it doesn't matter if you pull or push the lamp for lateral adjustment - what is you take on this? My bowls are S1.5 flat backs'.

I have decided to remove one of the adjusters and the related rubber moulding on the gasket since none of them go through the body work.
I think it confirms they have made the parts for LHD/RHD option and us figure what works. Would you also advise shortening the very long replacement headlamp harness - although I can just curl it up.

Then it looks like you have the spring retainer at the top and I am sure that should be at the bottom to pull away from the adjuster and create tension.
You'd think this would be easy but - none of my bits matched and some are stamped MK10 and some bits badly damaged through rust which is why nothing worked properly!

[Heuer]

I wrote to SNGB about the problem thus:

"The problem with your SBS5000 S1 flat back headlamp bowls is they do not fit the S1 cars, as I will illustrate. The original bowls had two trim screws to which the seating rim attaches. These are used for up/down and left/right beam alignment. The bowls attach to the bonnet diaphragm with four screws and are sealed with a gasket #8598. The gasket is special in that it has two boots to contain and protect the trim screw housings as they pass into the wheel well. From the wheel well it looks like this and you will see the rubber boots sticking out proud at 6 and 9 o'clock:

From the front it looks like this - four retaining screws going into four captive nuts and the two trim screws at 3 and 6 o'clock going through the bonnet diaphragm:

The SBS5000 has one rather important difference. It has three trim screws (heavens knows why you need three!) but the S1 E-Type has no hole in the bonnet diaphragm to accommodate the one at 9 o'clock.

Even if I were to drill a hole in the bonnet diaphragm the gasket #8598 is to the original design so has no boot to protect the trim screw housing. The third 'trim' screw also fouls the retaining ring - could remove it obviously but the housing will still be there.

Two other things. The harness entrance hole in the bowl is much bigger than standard which means the original grommet will not fit and trying to swap them over to the supplied one is a real pain without removing the sugar scoops. Also the retaining ring won't actually fit to both adjustment screws simultaneously as they are out of alignment:

So it seems you are selling the correct retaining rings, the correct gasket, the correct rim spring and the correct trim screws but a mismatching bowl. A simple fix would involve cutting off the third trim housing and re-powder coating but it would still require the original retaining rim slots to be filed/cut to align with the trim screws and the metal is so thin it would be difficult to do without bending/breaking them. Then there is the problem with the overly large wiring hole because to get the existing grommet off requires removing the harness from the l/h 5 way and r/h 10 way connector, getting access to which means taking off the sugar scoops (a real pain if you have ever tried it!). I see Holden sell the S1 bowls with the two trim screws and small harness hole but both trim screws seem to be fitted in the wrong place, at least in the picture:


Julian Barratt responded:

If you have a look at the attached picture, the currently available panels have a total of 4 holes in them.


I suspect this is allow it to be possible to make the panel in a more generic way. This extra hole will, obviously, allow for the extra adjuster lug on the bowl to fit the current panel ? probably hence why this issue hasn?t cropped up for us. Clearly, the seal won?t fit on a current bowl though. What we will do:

Modify all future bowls in our workshops to:
a. Remove the extra adjuster lug.
b. Close up the hole to allow better fitment of the grommet.

I would estimate that we will have revised stock before Christmas (2013).

[Minerva]

I now know what is happening - yippe!

The bowls for S1 are different to S1.5/S2. SNG have sent the me flat back bowls for the S1 which won't fit because all the adjusters and retaining points are diametrically opposite to the later version. The one's I had on the car were full bowls but all the retainers were in the wrong place so must have come from a different car - another bodge from a so-called specialist that I paid good money to.

The gasket can only be fitted with the x2 lobes fitted at 12 o'clock and 9 o'clock because otherwise the fixing holes are in the wrong place. (Same both sides). The S2 bowl has x2 adjusters in the same place that match - but it does not have the threaded adjuster cylinders welded to the back. Instead it has a plastic threaded insert pressed into the adjuster hole. (now easy to fit into the gasket). This hole is actually a rectangle with hole drilled in the centre and there should be x2 fitted at 12 o'clock and 9 o'clock.

Herein lies the problem - SNG have one at 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock and 6 o'clock but nothing at 9 o'clock so you have to create another hole exactly where the gasket position and adjuster lies and reposition the plastic insert.

The chrome ring must be hung from the base of the backplate and presses into the clip at the top - easy when you know, but I didn't until a kind friend showed me in the workshop manual and explained with his own pics - attached How??

Unfortunately I had removed one of the lugs on the back before realising but SNG are refunding and replacing with the right part - except the missing hole which I can manage. I had taken care to tell them it was S1.5 and they are half the price of flat backs too.