Lightweight e-type sells for ?4m

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:06 pm

Personally think ?4,000,000+ for that LWE is a bargain. If you reckon a good restored 3.8 OTS will fetch ?200,000 and they made 7,832 of those, paying 20x as much for one of 12 is a no-brainer. Far safer investment than the common or garden E-Type's!

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:29 pm

Heuer wrote:Far safer investment than the common or garden E-Type's!

Aargh. The 'I' word again. I preferred it when they were just classic cars to be driven, worn out and rebuilt - 'Da Capo al Fine'. Not losing value through depreciation made the hobby affordable. Trying to gain through appreciation is killing it. It would suit me if every market maker took a haircut and moved elsewhere.

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:55 pm

Killing what, the security of the investment or the illusion of affordability? Plenty of other affordable cars to play with if you are a true motoring enthusiast - does not have to be an E-Type you know.

Durango2k · Post by **Durango2k** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:03 pm

Indeed it has to be one. When restored relatively easy to repair, incredible form, so....

Carsten

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:19 pm

Heuer wrote:Killing what, the security of the investment or the illusion of affordability? Plenty of other affordable cars to play with if you are a true motoring enthusiast - does not have to be an E-Type you know.

It wasn't an illusion, a fact to which my impecunious presence here bears witness.

Anyone into classic cars could wheel and deal their way through a few Spitfires or MGBs and get on the bottom rung of the E-type ladder because the multiple wasn't that big. Nowadays???

PaulColeman · Post by **PaulColeman** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:12 pm

Dave K wrote:
PaulColeman wrote: Is the love affair over Dave?
Just don't have the time to drive it and haven't had for a few years, my sons both have classic Mini's so I am now restoring one completely and have the other one to do when this one is finished about March.
I think I am more of the restorer type not driver type.

Dave

Hahaha that sounds familiar. I spent two years restoring a 1976 Mini 1000 for my daughter and have spent most of this weekend on and off replacing the head gasket on it which went on Friday. I guess that's what you get when you use a 40 year old car as a daily driver! Are you doing the London to Brighton? We did it last year when the car had literally just been finished and it broke down three times hahaha Not the best time to do a shake down on a car that had sat in a barn for 10 years.

That took two years out of the eight I've spent restoring a 1976 Lotus Esprit. That's nearly finished now though and only needs the carbs rebuilding, a bit of wiring and a few bits of the interior.

Then I have a ratty old e-type to play with. Restoring it is the enjoyable bit for me and it's a bit of an anti climax when it's done but that's okay you just buy another one and start again :)

Paul.

Moeregaard · Post by **Moeregaard** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:06 pm

Anyone into classic cars could wheel and deal their way through a few Spitfires or MGBs and get on the bottom rung of the E-type ladder because the multiple wasn't that big. Nowadays???[/quote]

Could not have stated it any better, Pete Got my start with MGAs and Sprites, before getting my first E-Type. Sadly, that "business model" is seriously obsolete.

Simon P · Post by **Simon P** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:19 pm

Heuer wrote:Personally think ?4,000,000+ for that LWE is a bargain. If you reckon a good restored 3.8 OTS will fetch ?200,000 and they made 7,832 of those, paying 20x as much for one of 12 is a no-brainer.!

SEJohnson95 · Post by **SEJohnson95** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:25 pm

Assuming a 3.8 FHC is probably worth ?100,000, does that make my mini 860927 worth ?12,500? If someone would like to start the bidding north of 1k then that would be jolly marvellous. Of course the jack and toolkit will be worth scale amounts, but I'll not separate them from the car.

Simon P · Post by **Simon P** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:30 pm

SEJohnson95 wrote:Assuming a 3.8 FHC is probably worth ?100,000, does that make my mini 860927 worth ?12,500?

Only if it's got the correct 1/8th scale toolkit and jack :D

SEJohnson95 · Post by **SEJohnson95** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:45 pm

Simon P wrote:
SEJohnson95 wrote:Assuming a 3.8 FHC is probably worth ?100,000, does that make my mini 860927 worth ?12,500?
Only if it's got the correct 1/8th scale toolkit and jack :D

Original correct buff logbook, jack and toolkit, heritage certificate supplied, you name it. Incidentally did anyone else see the 1/8th D-Type for sale at the NEC last November? It was on the LWE stand. ?4500 I think it was. Mine wasn't quite as good as that mind you. Some people have too much money to burn...

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:45 pm

You can still wheel and deal your way through classic cars, it is just you may need to go through a couple more iterations to get to a supercar. Always been thus it is just some of you have been spoilt by getting in on the ground floor with the E-Type before its true value was appreciated. I wish the "enthusiasts" would stop crying into their milk about how "their car" has gone up so much in value. Everything desirable has and I bemoan the fact I should not have bothered with an E-Type in 1999 but bought the other cars I was offered - a DB5 Volante, Ferrari Dino and a Carrera 2.7RS for about the same money, all iconic and huge fun to drive. I bought an ?lan for a bit of fun and it has doubled in value in four years, our 993 is apparently worth more than we paid for it in 2000 but I don't feel the need to go bleating on the associated Forums about wealth, value and the loss of our hobby. There is still fun to be had out there and if I had to sell the E-Type's I would feel no remorse because the other cars of my youth, the MG Midget, Lancia Fulvia, Cortina 1600E and Dolimite Sprint would slake my thirst. I have always wanted a Mini Cooper, Mini Moke and Frogeye along with a host of other odd machines where perhaps the 'us and them' mentality still does not rear its head. Increasing values - bring it on! ?7,000,000 for a LWE - well done to the purchaser for having the taste and the smarts to make enough money to buy it.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:32 am

I think we're looking at the issue from different ends of the binoculars David.

I don't begrudge anyone their hard-earned (or even their not-hard-earned). They are free to spend it on whatever they like. But if for example I lived a newly-gentrified rural or urban location where locals could no longer afford to buy a house because of the free market I'd grumble into my beer at the local - especially if they swept up the sawdust and made me endure Dralon and Muzak.

The incomers have every right to share the amenities/live where they want and there's no law that says people should be able to afford to live where they want or where they were raised. Still, being driven out by price alone is no fun - especially if you were actually intending to live there and use local services rather than just mothball the place and use support hardly any local facilities.

Just because some things are inexorable doesn't mean you have to be happy about them. Telling people to stop complaining while they're being disenfranchised is a bit rough.

Still, worse things happen at sea (as they say where Tony, Christopher and I come from). I had a good long Skype with family on the Wirral today so I'm in good spirits. Drive on!

mystery type · Post by **mystery type** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:03 am

Far safer investment than the common or garden E-Type's!

jaguar seemed to disagree....

44DHR · Post by **44DHR** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:28 am

Just to give my thoughts on the interesting debate which comes up from time to time on the question of if prices will peak and stabilise - or rapidly reduce after a strong surge.

The "bubble bursting" scenario came from a previous situation in the 1980's, but in that era this was down primarily to that dreaded "I" word being mentioned previously in this post and not necessarily down to the "norm" of supply and demand in determining price.

With any discontinued product, that is it - a finite number of items. It is acknowledged that some previously discarded examples may re-apppear as the demand intensifies to make the effort worth the now higher perceived price, but the number available worldwide is a fixed number. Add in the inability to actually manufacture some complex panels, (Fixed Head coupes) and the increasing cost of manual labour. The present situation in the classic car example is that this is now a well established "business" and "lifestyle" and hence a good perception of the "product". This situation differs greatly from the situation 30 years ago. Demand from an increasing number of potential buyers can only increase over time and is subject to additional factors as time increases.

I mention the future, as again we are in a different situation than the 1980's as various outside pressures and legalisations are imposed on current comparable products. I had an interesting discussion this weekend with a good friend who is a historic racer and and has many interesting cars, some of which I was looking at in his workshop. He said to me that he had experienced a complete turnaround from some seriously monied people to their sanitised hypercars and although remaining a poster dream for many, the people who had these and driven them are now falling over themselves for a car to have a real driving experience, devoid of "driver aids" and electronics, easy to work on and now with good parts availability. Hence, he had several classics going out shortly, including a XK 150, an E type, three Mark I Escorts - and even an historic period racing Standard Ten.

This desire for driving involvement just adds to the demand as people will be seeking cars which provide this driving experience and lifestyle which is now widely acknowledged and promoted in the media.

cheers,

Dave

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:35 pm

More fuel for the fire! RM Auction results 2015. Current exchange rate will give you prices of ?290,532, ?145,266, ?138,000, ?185,219 and ?127,084 respectively - all plus 12% commission (so ?328k, ?163k, ?155k, ?208k and ?142k) plus taxes:

A BMW 507 sold for $2,400,000 if that puts things in perspective and US prices tend to lag behind UK prices. Original RHD cars also attract a premium here and in Germany/Switzerland.

MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:21 pm

Put this in perspective:-
Eagle can make you a similar product for a quarter of the money.

Put that in perspective:-
Martin Robey (& others) can similarly help turn a sow's ear into a silk purse for much less again.

kind regards
Marek

malcolm · Post by **malcolm** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:02 pm

I think Eagles cost a lot more than a quarter of those prices

SEJohnson95 · Post by **SEJohnson95** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:16 pm

malcolm wrote:I think Eagles cost a lot more than a quarter of those prices

The reference was to the BMW 507 in the context of things. Interesting because I would also say that demand seems to be increasing as Jaguar is proving to be successful again, and yes it's more about an image as well as the material value of the car. I'd buy into that any day of the week given half a chance. Demand pull inflation is what economists coin the term. Supply (although increasing as we drag more cars out of barns or cars appear that haven't been sold for years) changes proportionately less than the increase in demand, hence the price rise.

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:52 pm

While interest rates stay below 1%, shares languish and property prices stutter the demand for classic cars, which are CGT free, will remain strong. The top cars are being bought by Hedge Funds, Pension providers and Investment companies for that very reason. A very good friend of mine bought, against my advice I should add, a McLaren F1 GTR longtail for ?900,000 plus ?100,000 restoration costs. No way it could ever be converted to a road car and there is no race series for it to compete in. Currently valued at ?7,000,000 and turning down offers. What do I know

I know Pete does not like the 'I' word but ?6m profit tax free in four years can't be bad!

MarekH wrote:Put this in perspective:-
Eagle can make you a similar product for a quarter of the money.

I can make you a copy of a ?50 note but it won't have any value.

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Lightweight e-type sells for ?4m

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