Hello
On my S?ries 2 2+2 1970 from US,
I.m facing several problems with the n?cessary flush of my auto gearbox:
1/ i cannot remove 2 of the sump cover bolts That are hidden by the exhaust
Is this normal ?
2/ i cannot unscrew the big lat?ral nut : Is this normal ?
3/ i disconnected the pipe going to the rad and with the engine running the flow was weak say 5 minutes to drain 1 liter : Is this normal ?
I guess it may come from a clogged filter Or fubard pump(s) Or....worse ?
Opinions welcome [/list]
Auto gearbox flush and sump removal
#2
Hi there
I decided to flush my gearbox and change filters, seal, etc as the sump has been leaking
The start was delicate as 3 of the screws where hidden by the non original exhaust. I found the solution in loosening the screws securing the exhaust to the chassis,
Then removal of the 20+ screws holding the sump ; in order to avoid a shower, I left the big bolt fastening the oil gauge(also because I read it was nearly impossible to unscrew )
Some prying was necessary to open the sump and ?have a shower ; hopefully I had placed a bucket below and stepped back !
To finish the flush , I used a watering hose as a siphon
Then I tried to remove the sump+gauge attached , but there was no way to remove it from underneath (nor top of course) . So there was no other way than unbolting the 1? (?) bolt ; managed o do it with aan adjustable spanner and a hammer (after resecuring the sump with 4 screws to prevent movement)
Sump removed and emptied : what was left inside ?
The bas news :
? 2 broken parts
? No magnet found
? Filter is a little damaged on side
The good news :
? Hardly any trace of metal grindings on filter or elsewhere
? Finally the bad news of the broken bit in Aluminium/Mazaks might not be serious ; it?s only contributing slightly (with 4 other screws ) to closing 2 halves of an enclosure ; there it goes; I could refit it and as it broke with a "T" shape, it stil plays some role in fastening the Mazak enclosure
? The 2nd broken part is only the missing magnet holder (pic taken after cleaning the sump !)
? The bottom of the sump contained no other debris , just dirty oil
Removal of the filter (simply clipped) and change with a new one : surprise the one provided by B?tt is different !
The filtering mesh is now on top instead of bottom ; let?s assume it?s an improvement of the function ?.?
When refitting , I was surprised that there is no real sealing between the filter and the pipe, I was expecting a rubber seal
Removal of the old cork seal , main reason of flunshing the box as it was leaking
Refitting of this pipe (which seems to lubricate the top of the box, and fell down when opening the sump); on top it doesn?t sem to enter any aperture
The new seal
The new magnet from my toolbox; just stuck to the sump; any need of securing it ?
Refitted the sump with 4 screws to protect box from any dust before next steps
What I believe as certain :
? The cork seal was leaky and faulty; needed definite replacement
? I could retrive all oil that I had introduced during previous flush with the pump, plus old one
My questioning :
? What happeed to the magnet ? forgotten by PO during previous flush ? destroyed ? (should be traces left somewhere in this case)
? I was expecting a clogged filter explaining low pressure when I previously partly flushed the box with pump ; not the case : i slow pressure normal ? could it be due to the returning pipe not well placed ?
? The edges of the sump are not exactly flat, and thickness is not sufficient (poor design explained elsewhere) ; I will consider having metal bars of says 3mm thickness cut on purpose , with longer screws, in order to have a much more even pressure on the seal
Any thoughts ?
I decided to flush my gearbox and change filters, seal, etc as the sump has been leaking
The start was delicate as 3 of the screws where hidden by the non original exhaust. I found the solution in loosening the screws securing the exhaust to the chassis,
Then removal of the 20+ screws holding the sump ; in order to avoid a shower, I left the big bolt fastening the oil gauge(also because I read it was nearly impossible to unscrew )
Some prying was necessary to open the sump and ?have a shower ; hopefully I had placed a bucket below and stepped back !
To finish the flush , I used a watering hose as a siphon
Then I tried to remove the sump+gauge attached , but there was no way to remove it from underneath (nor top of course) . So there was no other way than unbolting the 1? (?) bolt ; managed o do it with aan adjustable spanner and a hammer (after resecuring the sump with 4 screws to prevent movement)
Sump removed and emptied : what was left inside ?
The bas news :
? 2 broken parts
? No magnet found
? Filter is a little damaged on side
The good news :
? Hardly any trace of metal grindings on filter or elsewhere
? Finally the bad news of the broken bit in Aluminium/Mazaks might not be serious ; it?s only contributing slightly (with 4 other screws ) to closing 2 halves of an enclosure ; there it goes; I could refit it and as it broke with a "T" shape, it stil plays some role in fastening the Mazak enclosure
? The 2nd broken part is only the missing magnet holder (pic taken after cleaning the sump !)
? The bottom of the sump contained no other debris , just dirty oil
Removal of the filter (simply clipped) and change with a new one : surprise the one provided by B?tt is different !
The filtering mesh is now on top instead of bottom ; let?s assume it?s an improvement of the function ?.?
When refitting , I was surprised that there is no real sealing between the filter and the pipe, I was expecting a rubber seal
Removal of the old cork seal , main reason of flunshing the box as it was leaking
Refitting of this pipe (which seems to lubricate the top of the box, and fell down when opening the sump); on top it doesn?t sem to enter any aperture
The new seal
The new magnet from my toolbox; just stuck to the sump; any need of securing it ?
Refitted the sump with 4 screws to protect box from any dust before next steps
What I believe as certain :
? The cork seal was leaky and faulty; needed definite replacement
? I could retrive all oil that I had introduced during previous flush with the pump, plus old one
My questioning :
? What happeed to the magnet ? forgotten by PO during previous flush ? destroyed ? (should be traces left somewhere in this case)
? I was expecting a clogged filter explaining low pressure when I previously partly flushed the box with pump ; not the case : i slow pressure normal ? could it be due to the returning pipe not well placed ?
? The edges of the sump are not exactly flat, and thickness is not sufficient (poor design explained elsewhere) ; I will consider having metal bars of says 3mm thickness cut on purpose , with longer screws, in order to have a much more even pressure on the seal
Any thoughts ?
2+2 1970
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David Oslo
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:13 pm
- Location: Norway
#3
Good stuff, I like the picture story.
I would agree that some 3mm or 5mm flat plate that is profile cut to same shape as sump would be a good idea in order to apply more even pressure to the gasket. I had the same leaky problem on my auto car. I fixed the problem by putting in a manual gearbox.
In terms of pressure, I would be wondering if the oil pump in the gearbox itself is worn (what is the mileage?) or if some of the O-rings in the valve block are age-hardened and leak slightly (internal leaking allowing pressure "blow past").
Magnet missing, that's a real puzzle. And I think you're fine to just stick the magnet to the sump, by magnetism. Simple and smart.
I would agree that some 3mm or 5mm flat plate that is profile cut to same shape as sump would be a good idea in order to apply more even pressure to the gasket. I had the same leaky problem on my auto car. I fixed the problem by putting in a manual gearbox.
In terms of pressure, I would be wondering if the oil pump in the gearbox itself is worn (what is the mileage?) or if some of the O-rings in the valve block are age-hardened and leak slightly (internal leaking allowing pressure "blow past").
Magnet missing, that's a real puzzle. And I think you're fine to just stick the magnet to the sump, by magnetism. Simple and smart.
David
S1 2+2 '67 MOD conversion (going)
S2 OTS '70 (arriving)
S1 2+2 '67 MOD conversion (going)
S2 OTS '70 (arriving)
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PeterCrespin
- Posts: 4561
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#4
The sump is distorted because of overtightening on a thick soft gasket, which is why the gasket broke and leaked. It is easy to flatten the metal again and tighten it all up gently with careful use of some sealer as backup.
The solution to damage caused by overtightening is not to modify parts to permit continued abuse, it is to avoid overtightening. If you reinforce the flanges and use longer bolts you will just make the gasket the next weak link. Cork or rubber gaskets need only to be nipped up.
The solution to damage caused by overtightening is not to modify parts to permit continued abuse, it is to avoid overtightening. If you reinforce the flanges and use longer bolts you will just make the gasket the next weak link. Cork or rubber gaskets need only to be nipped up.
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas
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#5
thanks Peter and Dave
I'll have a look if there is a torque specified for tightening in the WSM
I'll have a look if there is a torque specified for tightening in the WSM
2+2 1970
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#6
news from below the lift:
finished to flush the box; 2 more liters, now it's dry
sump refitted (after flattening on kitchen granite table while wife away shopping)
new cork seal
refill ( 5l so far, I'll have to add more but easier than removing)
bolts secured at minimum torque specified (18 Nm) : so far no leaks !!
before refitting I made a template for a potential future stiffener
also distorted converter winglets
and...first run of 10 km to the next petrol station....(ah yes, I have changed these awful non-period wheels to period optional chrome steel wheels with new tyres)
back number plate was still missing ... luckily did'nt meet any cops
the good news: gear box seems quite OK !
less good news : I have the feeling to run on 5 cylinders (if not 4) ; I had'nt time to set advance since I last refurbished the distributor though
during first runs fitting of the chrome on rear door with suction tools
another strange issue: braking is very efficient but I have like a "kick back" when I press the pedal; any clue ?
finished to flush the box; 2 more liters, now it's dry
sump refitted (after flattening on kitchen granite table while wife away shopping)
new cork seal
refill ( 5l so far, I'll have to add more but easier than removing)
bolts secured at minimum torque specified (18 Nm) : so far no leaks !!
before refitting I made a template for a potential future stiffener
also distorted converter winglets
and...first run of 10 km to the next petrol station....(ah yes, I have changed these awful non-period wheels to period optional chrome steel wheels with new tyres)
back number plate was still missing ... luckily did'nt meet any cops
the good news: gear box seems quite OK !
less good news : I have the feeling to run on 5 cylinders (if not 4) ; I had'nt time to set advance since I last refurbished the distributor though
during first runs fitting of the chrome on rear door with suction tools
another strange issue: braking is very efficient but I have like a "kick back" when I press the pedal; any clue ?
2+2 1970
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