Marston Radiator

bopperd · Post by **bopperd** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:34 am

Richard,
Thanks for the eBay tip. There are indeed 4ba zinc plated screws available. With tap, they would run me about $20 Canadian. I would prefer stainless if you have extras you are willing to part with.

Dave

richard btype · Post by **richard btype** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Dave

I've just checked, two spare only. I have the contact details of the vendor at the show and they could send directly to you?

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:42 pm

Love my Fosseway but I have to say my rebuilt engine still pukes up water if you leave it idle when hot. The fan kicked in, I had the heater switched off but it boiled over. A bit disappointed I had throughly cleaned the block out, but still kept the original fan. What do I do next! If I get caught on the M25 on a hot day it's going to end in tears. David I thought your was ok with the original set up? Was hoping that the Fosseway would beat the blues on its own .

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:51 pm

andrewh wrote:Love my Fosseway but I have to say my rebuilt engine still pukes up water if you leave it idle when hot. The fan kicked in, I had the heater switched off but it boiled over. A bit disappointed I had throughly cleaned the block out, but still kept the original fan. What do I do next! If I get caught on the M25 on a hot day it's going to end in tears. David I thought your was ok with the original set up? Was hoping that the Fosseway would beat the blues on its own .

Classic case of over-filling by the sound of it. No radiator in the world can or should stop thermal expansion of coolant in a running engine.

Let it puke until it stops puking and you stop filling it up. If you don't do the latter it will never stop doing the former. Don't be surprised if it pukes a fraction more the first time it gets really really hot.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:30 pm

I hope you are right Peter. It just feels too hot and when the fan does not seem to bring the temperature down it tests the nerves a bit. Gets a fraction over 90 degrees before I bottle it and turn it off. I am trying to simulate a real life event whilst I am at home rather than on the M25. How high would you expect the coolant to be in the tank?

Post by **1954Etype** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:48 pm

Andrew, it is quite low in the header tank. I always test the cars here by leaving them running and keeping an eye on the temp gauge.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:25 pm

Thanks Angus . What would you say was maximum temperature to let it get upto before switching off.?
Surely the 3.8 s must have been able to idle for a while before boiling over?

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:02 am

Stop saying they boil over - unless yours is boiling over :-)

Puking is a sign of expansion, not overheating. Overheating is an uncontrolled progressive increase to the point of boiling, not just puking. With a pressure cap and 50% coolant mix this will be well north of 100C.

Who says your gauge is accurate?

Is the fan blowing instead of sucking? Shouldn't matter that much when stationary (and is impossible with series-wound motors) but I've seen someone wire one up to blow instead of suck and wonder why his car ran hot.

If your car actually starts boiling you have a problem, but you'll know when that happens. Ejecting water from the over-full header tank from repeated topping-up (including heat soak after switch-off) is not boiling or overheating. Have you got an IR thermometer? Or a jam thermometer to leave in the header tank with the cap off? I assume you have the correct thermostat and your by-pass is shutting off?

Is your engine rebored? Rebored engines can run hot at first, depending on the quality of honing.

Pete

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:49 am

Thanks Peter, some good stuff here. Yes I do have an IR thermometer so will check what she is reading against the gauge for starters. I will check the fan and blade although I think the latter can only be put on the correct way, that's not to say its not running the wrong direction of course. Which way should the motor run?

You have however given me an idea, I noticed the first time I ran the car and topped it up that the paint from the manufacturing process in the inside of the filler neck was scuffed up and may have not been allowing the cap to seat properly. I then promptly forgot to clean it off! Could be this of course, and also I reverted to the original cap as the new one from SNG was a different design at the rubber seal end and I was not sure it would seat correctly. Of course I may have the original pressure cap on the tank, but it may not be the correct one for the new header and it also a 3lb from memory? Back to the drawing board will check this all and report back.

Oh and you are quite correct, it is not "boiling over" and I have experienced that on other vehicles and its not nice. I think the sealing seat and pressure rating of the cap may be something to do with it.

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:31 am

Andrew, with the fan runnng, put your hand in front and then behind the rad. The fan should suck the air tnrough and therefore the draught should be felt stronger from behind.

Duckham · Post by **Duckham** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:44 pm

1954Etype wrote:Andrew, it is quite low in the header tank.

I suspect that it varies between cars.
On mine the natural level of the coolant is just under the top baffle.
I drilled a finger-sized hole in the baffle so that I poke a finger in and check the level.
A 3psi cap seems low unless you have the earlier convoluted top hose - the later hose design allowed a higher pressure rating.
Joe

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:29 am

I rechecked my pressure caps. The original is 7lb, the new one from a well known suppler is the same but too short to meet the seat in the neck of the expansion tank. In other words there would be no seal so water would pour out the overflow. I would like a new cap to match the rest of the restoration. Has anyone come across this issue and found a supplier of caps that fit the new tanks?

64etype · Post by **64etype** » Sun May 03, 2015 4:59 pm

Heuer wrote:No, the side tanks are machined from aluminium to replicate the Marston 'fins' and they do aid cooling.

I do wish people who say "there is some evidence" would tell us exactly what that evidence is. The 'pro' Marston side (George Camp, JCNA, Bob Stevenson et al) has produced Jaguar documentation and photos to support the case whilst the 'anti's' seem to cite heresay. At least Eric is doing the leg work and researching a solution.

I was just rereading my copy of Paul Skilleter's excellent book, "The Jaguar E-type - A Collectors Guide" Copyright 1979. On page 26 in the section titled "Three Point Eight 1961-1964", Mr. Skilleter states...."Following D-type practice, a separate header tank was used, together with a radiator of light alloy (changed to copper during 1964)".

Post by **Heuer** » Sun May 03, 2015 5:44 pm

He may have been referring to the 4.2 which was released in October 1964? You could always ask him: http://www.paulskilleterarchive.co.uk/ or jagworld1@aol.com

64etype · Post by **64etype** » Sun May 03, 2015 5:57 pm

Heuer wrote:He may have been referring to the 4.2 which was released in October 1964? You could always ask him: http://www.paulskilleterarchive.co.uk/ or jagworld1@aol.com

I will do that. But to be clear, that sentence is in the 3.8 section of his book, not the 4.2 - 1964 to 1967 section. Haddock also has a similar reference.

Post by **Heuer** » Tue May 05, 2015 11:29 am

Eric

This is Marston radiator #627 from car #875343 (built 17th August 1961) if it is any help in your research:

By then approximately 90 RHD OTS's, 343 LHD OTS's, 4 RHD FHC's and 20 LHD FHC's were built. So 457 cars, 627 radiators.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue May 05, 2015 12:44 pm

Paul is not infallible. He is one of the writers who referred to the 2+2 having a steeper screen. Ultimately, primary documentation always trumps secondary evidence and/or hearsay, as it should. Nevertheless, good luck in your quest Don Quixote :-)

64etype · Post by **64etype** » Tue May 05, 2015 3:10 pm

PeterCrespin wrote:Paul is not infallible. He is one of the writers who referred to the 2+2 having a steeper screen. Ultimately, primary documentation always trumps secondary evidence and/or hearsay, as it should. Nevertheless, good luck in your quest Don Quixote :-)

Sorry, but the "primary evidence" is anything but, when it comes to the 1964 cars. Interesting how the current crop of "experts" scramble to discredit anyone who disagrees with their "evidence" (Mr. Skilleter and Dr. Haddock, for example). You're entitled to your opinion, but the wise guy attitude is unprofessional, unbecoming and disappointing.

As for that data plate photo, while there's no question that the Marston would be original to a '61, I'll ask the same question the wise guys ask....is there proof that this particular radiator was original to that chassis serial number. There have been comments in the past that the radiator serial numbers closely tracked with the chassis numbers. Perhaps not. I'd think the question and answer would be of interest to those who are installing reproductions in the quest for originality....which brings up another point.... is a modern copy of a Marston more "correct" than a non-Marston replacement from the era (not that any exists, of course).

Post by **Heuer** » Tue May 05, 2015 4:45 pm

Yes, the radiator is original to the car. The owner has kept all the parts that were changed during the cars life. It currently resides in Canada and was one of the first 15 imported. So yes, there is proof this radiator was fitted to the car at the Factory. Sorry I mentioned it, I was only trying to help you with your analysis

64etype · Post by **64etype** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:07 pm

It is helpful in that it appears to show that the numbers did not track with the chassis numbers, which seems odd that early in the production. But if accurate, it's another "fact" debunked. Thanks. (No need for the cute little icon).

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