not sure how to title this one

[StevenB]

Not sure i like this.. at all, claims its for memorabilia..........

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281877210761? ... EBIDX%3AIT

[cactusman]

I spotted it too. A lot of money for memorabilia as the seller puts it. A pair of knackered lights, corroded carbs and a chassis plate. No V5 !!!!! I think the phrase is caveat emptor...

[PeterCrespin]

As somebody who had an FHC from that period stolen and broken up three years ago I would love to see this checked out by PC Plod or DVLA. It won't be my car but it was somebody's. Can anyone get the VIN off him and it can go on XKE data in this form for future reference on the VIN? Ask for a photo of the plate maybe or get someone round there posing as a possible buyer?

[1954Etype]

I have the original VIN from my first E type as l put a new one on it when l restored it back in 79. I have kept it in the vain hope that l can reunite it with the car. I could do what this eBayer is doing as it is no problem getting the docs they have.

As Pete says, an entry onto XKEData should safeguard it to a point.

I had a call from a chap a couple of weeks ago asking if l had any IDs for sale. Yes l do but they come with the original car!

[PeterCrespin]

And in case there were any doubters...

The seller says he will only reveal the VIN to the winning bidder AFTER payment has been received. Which to me means he realises he only has something of value provided nobody knows the eventual 'Franken-car' that emerges stRted life as an ID plate. If it was sold as automobilia why would the VIN being known matter? He knows that anyone buying this will be highly motivated to keep schtum and protect their own scam - possibly even 'ring' a stolen car like mine. As long as nobody but buyer and seller know the VIN it should all go swimmingly and the incentive to nick another car remain.

Does nobody know a copper in the vehicle crime unit? There used to be a high profile traffic officer by the name of Dave German but that was some years ago. If I lived near Stoke I'd be on the blower by now.

[64etype]

Contact Ebay if this is a scam.

[steve3.8]

Another alarming point about this is the seller has obtained a Jaguar Heritage certificate without proof of ownership , for both my cars Anders insisted on seeing the V5's in my name , the ebay advert states no V5 so have JH standards slipped ? .

Other car clubs would insist on seeing the car or a pile of bits with serial numbers before putting their name to a Certificate .

[christopher storey]

Stinks to high heaven. Why are all the numbers covered up ? The police should be asked to look at this a.s.a.p

[ALAN COCHRANE]

Steve

You're assuming the Heritage Certificate is genuine. It's amazing what you can do with things like Adobe Photoshop Editor or similar.
In my opinion the whole thing stinks and should be reported to Ebay.
Not showing the VIN number means only one of two things-it's from a stolen car or it's for sale to legitimise a stolen car.
You can buy the parts new for about half the price so guess what the ?5k is really for?
Hopefully the ad will be removed soon and not because it's sold.

Alan

[steve3.8]

A fake certificate could be the case , but here's hoping it would give stronger evidence against the seller if it was the real deal , i notice 2015 printed at the bottom , some questions need to be put to JH and it would'nt take long to pinpoint the vehicle ie fhc , opalescent blue , date of manufacture 4th june 65 , and let this be known to dvla .

[PeterCrespin]

A fake certificate could be the case , but here's hoping it would give stronger evidence against the seller if it was the real deal , i notice 2015 printed at the bottom , some questions need to be put to JH and it would'nt take long to pinpoint the vehicle ie fhc , opalescent blue , date of manufacture 4th june 65 , and let this be known to dvla .

Will somebody please do this? I am going to call my case officer in Cambridge to see if Staffs police can find out the VIN. It is not so much that I think it's the remnants of my car, or even that I necessarily doubt the seller's story about a long-gone FHC, but this whole deal is clearly designed to facilitate cloning further down the line. So it is someone else who will be deceived and some shyster who will make a killing. Talk is cheap but if I'm prepared to pay for a transatlantic call or two, surely someone can use a few free call time minutes to call the Staffordshire police too?

Pete

[cactusman]

I had mine pinched in May but recovered in hours thanks to a tracker.
I have emailed Inspector Francis Mungai of Herts police who dealt with my theft and asked that he forward to someone in Stoke. I have sent him the ebay advert and the thread here.
Certainly when one thinks about it this is either a stolen car or at best very odd. Can't promise any action but hopefully Herts Police will act.

[cactusman]

I have done as suggested and called Staffs Police

The incident number is 617/8th Dec so they know and are investigating 77highlander77

Julian

[ernie]

Hi From my experience in such matters, looking at the information, plus digging around, I would be surprised if the transaction was bonafide ...I wont say anymore but leave you to fill in the gaps...

[PeterCrespin]

Thanks to all for doing their bit. I also served, who only sat and phoned (with apologies to John Milton and the Home Guard)

Cambridgeshire police re-opened my theft file and contacted Staffs, who were also contacted directly/indirectly by others. I also phoned Faye McLeod at Jaguar Heritage who got onto their usual contact at eBay security, DVLA and the police, IIRC.

Vendor will be asked to give the vin, present the plate for inspection by the police who will also alert Swansea. The VIN will then be on their files as never being usable in future without a trail of ownership and the car being presented for verification. I think that's game set and match.'

Faye did point out that on the back of their certificates they explicitly state what it does and doesn't do. i.e. it proves nothing about the car as an object, merely repeats what they know once applied to a car 40 or 50 years ago, regardless of whether the owner has the same vehicle today, in whole or in part. In other words a certificate has no connection with provenance.

Pete

[andrewh]

Great news for all of us with real cars we don't want stolen BUT when I tried to get a Heritage Certificate they quite rightly wanted proof of ownership. That said I see umpteen e bay ads with heritage certificates where it's evident the cars in question have clearly not been on the road for years and are owned by "intermediate owners" or dealers. Are we sure the ?70 or so Heritage charges is not clouding their responsibility to ensure these are not issued to incorrect cars or owners? On XKE data there is an long running row about the authenticity of an OBL car sold by Bonhams a couple of years ago at Goodwood purported to be written off and scrapped years ago . But guess what.....it has a heritage certificate

[PeterCrespin]

I think the proof of ownership thing would be better, personally, or at least SOME kind of current registration to show a car still exists. However, the problem lies also in the mistaken relevance/value we assign to the certificate.

It is a production trace certificate, NOT a vehicle certificate, much less a provenance/genuineness document. Other than being a nice bit of paper it does no more than if I scribbled some info on bog roll with a magic marker, and you wouldn't expect that to prove much about the car's value. It just says that once upon a time a car was made with certain features from certain components. It says absolutely nothing about whether a given vehicle is that car or the parts are those components - which we know they often are not. Step forward anyone who ever bought a new or refurbed tub for starters....

I asked Faye about the ownership requirement and she referred me to the blurb on the back and said for about ten years (?) if someone has all four numbers already then they have been giving a certificate - presumably on the basis they already have the core data and the only extras on the certificate are minor.

[mgcjag]

Hi All......Even if you have the V5 this is no proof of ownership, just showing the registered keeper...what you need to see is a bill of sale made out to the person selling the car proving that they are the owner and a check that there is no finance if its a regisered car...... this does come down to buyer beware when buying an unregistered resto project thats been found in a garage, does the person selling actually own it.....also on probate sales are you buying from the executors who have tbe legal right to dispose of assets or a family member that has access to the car....

[chrisfell]

Almost 20 years ago I returned to a railway station car park to find an empty space where I'd left my car.

After some weeks a known car thief, recently released from Shepton Mallet jail after serving a sentence for his most recent offence, was stopped while driving and was found to have the engine from my car fitted to the car he was driving. Despite matching the description of the person who was seen stealing my car in the first place, the police did not persue the matter.

I never saw that car again. I'd owned it for almost a decade, and intended to keep it for many more.

I hope, if it is proved that these items for sale in eBay have come from a stolen car, the police find and the courts punish the perp.

Speaking personally, I'd prefer rusty razor blades on gonads to temporary loss of freedom.

[Heuer]

I doubt justice will be served. The owner will claim he bought the bits in good faith at a car boot sale or found them in a skip/building site/house clearance/side of road/Garage he worked at/his long deceased great Uncle's house etc etc. I guess it is not an offence to sell these items as "memorabilia" and the vendor will no doubt say he hid the VIN to prevent a crime being committed! At least the description is honest although his intent may be construed otherwise:

"I HAVE ON OFFER THE SAD REMAINS OF AN E TYPE JAGUAR WHICH WAS BROKEN UP IN THE 80,s I HAVE THE TRIPLE MANUAL CHOKE HD8 CARBS IN ROUGH CONDITION ,SOME LIGHTS ,A PAIR OF CARPETS THE ORIGINAL BODY I.D. TAG , JAGUAR HERITAGE CERTIFICATE ,THERE IS NO V5 AND THE ORIGINAL REG NUMBER WAS NOT PUT ON TO SWANSEA COMPUTERISED RECORDS,THE CAR IS /WAS A 4.2 COUPE RHD CAR 1965 IN OPALESCENT BLUE I AM SELLING THESE PARTS FOR MEMORABILIA PURPOSES POSTAGE IS ?20 IN THE UK"

The listing is still up though.