S3 on the rise?

[mystery type]

This months (may 2016) edition of classic and sportscar..

fast, smooth and practical, why the S3 E-type is on the rise.

[Durango2k]

Yeah, and you'll have a lot more new friends when own one, most from the fuel industry ....

Carsten

[GravyGraham]

I'd suggest if you're fretting about fuel costs ownership of expensive classic cars might not be for you.

[D COUPE]

I actually enjoy putting fuel in mine........because I know then im going out in it !!!!!

[AussieEtype]

Yes the Series 3 has a manly stance and presence where the 6 cylinders are a bit girlie with their big oversize bodies on skinny little tyres and narrow track - the body just does not look right on its standard tyres.

The best option for these cars is to put wider wheels and tyres on to fill out the wheel arches.

[Lambo911]

If a 3.8 does 18mpg, a 4.2 17 and a 5.3 15 then over 3000 miles which I suspect is more than average the S3 costs ?153 more to run than the 3.8 and ?108 more than a 4.2...... who cares especially when an S3 has cost considerably less to buy in the first place

[David Oslo]

What I find quite amusing is when showing my car to friendly petrolheads and tech-heads, as soon as I open the bonnet (of my straight six), most sigh in admiration of all the polished alumunium and say "gorgeous V12".

:D

[Tony]

My 3.8 does about 23 mpg.However be it a Series 1,2 or 3 they are all E Types and most of the public don't know the difference. They just know it's an E Type and continue on to tell you that Enzo thought it to be the most beautiful car ever made, as if we have never heard the storey before.

[Dave Maddock]

HI

Having recently bought a Series 3 OTS I agree that it is all about the looks and feeling good, nothing better that cruising through the lanes to the pub, a cool pint in the beer garden and watching people gaze at the car. 15 mpg, that would be nice.....currently getting 11.

[AussieEtype]

Dave - when my car was on the road I kept detail fuel usage records. On the highway on a Sunday afternoon drive type conditions - 50mph I used to get 17.5mpg.

Normal country driving I got about 14mpg and around town 11mpg.

Like most vehicles - smooth throttle use means better fuel consumption but don't you just love the zoom zoom and the sound when you put the foot down

[christopher storey]

I too read the article, and immediately smelt a dealer trying to talk things up. The sad fact is that all empirical observations show that the S3, though a lovely car, does not enjoy significant demand in the UK in comparison with the 6 cylinder cars,( partly by reason of its complexity ?). Each of the JEC E type seminars I have attended over the years has shown this in a dramatic way , with on each occasion out of say 75 attenders , 72 having 6 cylinder cars and 2, or in one case 3, having 12 cylinder cars . I found this staggering but it was too consistent to be ignored . The same pattern is to be seen at auctions, where V12s attract few bids and are hard to move at decent prices

[Lambo911]

You can see the bias on this very forum too with the Series 1 group having 11,000 posts and Series 3 with less than 3,000.

Surprisingly the Series 2 only has around 3000 posts but then the Series 2 is also a model that is talked down compared to a Series 1.

At the end of the day the V12 is a different sort of car to the 6?s and has a lot of merit in its own right. Factor is the purchase cost difference and I think the V12 makes a very compelling case for owning one.

[Heuer]

There was a very good article in the latest JDC magazine written by John Watkinson. It was titled 'The Engine that Killed Jaguar' and makes a very convincing case that the V12 engine was poorly designed, misguided and a totally unnecessary niche product that damaged Jaguar's reputation and diverted sparse resources from the design of an XK replacement (which came 10 years later with the AJ6). "The Series 1 E Type is a sports car. lt goes well, but there is little luggage space and few creature comforts. The X.l-S is a grand tourer, which can go long distances and has plenty of luggage space. This leaves the question what kind of vehicle is the V12 E Type? The big engine is ideal for lazy long range driving, but there is nowhere for luggage."

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8496016/v12.pdf

[Lambo911]

I've just read the article and it is indeed interesting, typical story of cost cutting which defined engine development.

Engine deficiencies aside the series 3 is still great to drive and worthy of merit and if you have a 2+2 there is loads of space for luggage....

[jivili]

I own a series 3 because it was the only variant I could afford. Its still an e type in my mind and beautiful.
All this talk from series 1 owners you here about how superior their cars is makes me smile...I also own a bmw Z4M which in my opinion is a far better driving car than any etype I have driven... but where do the comparisons end?
I bought mine as I used to walk past one every day on the way to the school bus and I told myself that one day I would have one.
There seems to be a hint of smugness from some who bought a series 1 when they weren't fetching such ludicrously high prices.
I was offered a series 1 ots before i bought my USA S3 ots and too be honest it was twice the price that i ended up paying for mine.
Mine had ZERO rust whereas the series 1 was riddled with it.
Everyone has an opinion but I would predict that as the earlier cars are priced out of the average enthusiast's price range that the S3 will continue to rise in value.

[Heuer]

Nobody is denigrating the S3 and the JDC article is about the way Jaguar mishandled the V12 engine development. As Watkinson says, imagine what the S3 E-Type would have been with a straight six all alloy engine - more space, more comfort and better developed.

You can see the bias on this very forum too with the Series 1 group having 11,000 posts and Series 3 with less than 3,000. Surprisingly the Series 2 only has around 3000 posts but then the Series 2 is also a model that is talked down compared to a Series 1.

That is a reflection of the later cars being better developed and younger so having less problems. Also much of the technical stuff in the S1 Forum is shared with the S2/3.

[Alty Ian]

As someone who owns both a S1 OTS and a S3 2+2 I love them both but for slightly different reasons. They are both stunning cars compared with comparable classics, yes they have pros and cons against other classic sports cars but overall I still prefer the E type to anything else. When you compare the two models;

The S1 is without doubt better looking and more pure in terms of design and spec, but quite cramped (for me anyway) and performs well.

The S3 is a more refined car to drive, much more comfortable to drive with power steering, faster than S1 and the engine (which is astonishingly smooth and turbine like) sounds at least as nice as the S1 but is much less economic (if that matters). Most first time passengers are amazed by the engine, 0-120 in 3rd without changing gear is its party piece in one endless surge.

I can see why the V12 engine puts people off, but in 35 years mine hasnt missed a beat and although thirsty is a pleasure to have. Its inevitable that S3 prices are on the rise but they will always lag behind S1's but maybe will level out at S2 levels longer term?

[Lambo911]

Fantastic to have feedback from someone that owns both, thank you.

I would love a 3.8 series 1 but the purchase cost is way over my lowly income.

The relatively lower value for the S3 means I'm not paranoid about where I park it or it getting scrapes and knocks. I just use and abuse it !

[christopher storey]

I am not a JDC member so I have not read the article, but I would lay odds that the writer missed the point of the V12 altogether. It was not designed with the E type as its primary purpose , but like the XK in the XK120 , was tried out in the E before entering its mainstream use in the XJ saloons. When the XJ12 appeared it was without any question the best saloon car in the world, and it is interesting that the 12 cylinder cars go on to this day giving good service. That the engine, 40 odd years on, now shows some problems mainly connected with electrolytic corrosion is unsurprising, but it does not make it a bad engine. The fact that demand for it overall never reached the expected levels is purely due to political factors, of which the OPEC actions were the most prominent . It is interesting that many prestigious European manufacturers have tried V12s post WW2 : Jaguar, Mercedes , BMW ( I had one and it was a lovely car ) and in a slightly different field Ferrari in sizes ranging from 2 to 5+ litres, Lamborghini, and Ford with its rather dubious expedient of joining 2 V6 engines together etc . Quite how the engine "killed Jaguar" escapes me

[andrewh]

I own one of the first XJ12 saloons, a car I have known from new as it was delivered to my best pals grandad. I have also owned a number of v12 etypes. The V12 engine is a superb piece of engineering and taking myself back to 1971 it was a major plus for Jaguar and to manufacture a V12 that ran so well smoothly and unfussy was a feather in Jaguars cap. I remember local Lambos and Ferraris spending more time off the road trying to get them running right, not so the turbine like Jaguar unit. Anyway, back to V12 Etype, in 1971/2 when the Series 3 came out it was the car to have and was never regarded as a compromise by the mass of buyers who wanted the next thing. I love them and desperately want my old series 3 back in my garage . Where are you 1s2299?