Blockley vs Michelin

[dougal]

At the risk of setting off a wholey different discussion. I think the people with the Nankang tyres fitted to their cars are just convincing themselves that they are as good as the Michelin. I think they are a budget tyre in the right size with a copied tread on them. They won't have the integrity of carcass you get with a Michelin. I would doubt that they even have an asymmetric carcass inside the rubber outer. You ask anyone that sells tyres, they will all say the build quality of Michelin is excellent and they only ever have a happy customer with Michelin (OK maybe once they have recovered from their credit card bill)

CactusMan
Vredesteins dimensions for their tyres state 185/70R15 650mm diameter & 185HR15 675mm so a 185/70R15 is an inch smaller in diameter. And of course the original 6.40H15 RS5 Dunlop had a 683mm diameter. I'm surprised at MWS as they know their stuff - did they know it was for an E-type?

Richard Btype
There is half a chance that an RS5 might be made again, but I very much doubt it will be made by Dunlop. and I would suggest it certainly won't be made by Dunlop in the UK as that factory has been sold. Whether they get them made else where under licence is another question.

[PeterCrespin]

I think the people with the Nankang tyres fitted to their cars are just convincing themselves that they are as good as the Michelin.

You may be right, but if the person paying the bill is happy that they have bought something that suits their needs, that's good, no?

There is half a chance that an RS5 might be made again, but I very much doubt it will be made by Dunlop. and I would suggest it certainly won't be made by Dunlop in the UK as that factory has been sold. Whether they get them made else where under licence is another question.

I'm getting mixed messages on this factory location relevance. Obviously you would never, ever, suggest that Nankangs being made in China is a negative factor, since Pirelli is Chinese-owned, their biggest factory is there and the Chairman is called Jianxin... So why is factory location an issue for any possible Dunlop remanufacture? The location of a factory or whether it is a subcontractor facility is largely immaterial provided the production spec is consistent, othersise Pirellis not made in Milan would be suspect - and that means practically all of them?

As it happens, on Tuesday I passed close to Pirelli's highly-rated performance tyre factory in Rome, during a 1700-miles round trip to drop off a gearbox and collect a tub. That's Rome as in Rome, Georgia, USA. Geography, huh? :-)

[dougal]

the point i am trying to make is that a tyre that is made in the factory that is run and owned by the same company that puts it's brand name on the side wall is better, than a tyre that is banged out to a price under license.

And yes i agree that it isn't so much down to what country it is being made in.

When i sell Michelin or Pirelli tyres; they leave my ware house i know i will get no come back or dissatisfied customers. But what i also know is that i will end up with a happy customer and that will reflect well on my company and they might tell my mates.

In short i have made a customer happy which in the long run is good for my company and conscience.

I believe people that have bought the Nankang copy tyres are just attempting to convince anyone that would listen that they did not choose their tyres only on price, and that they are happy with them. There is not doubt they are not anywhere near the tyre that the XVS is. making an Asymetric carcass like that is not cheap. Sticking a asymmetric tread pattern on a buget carcass is easy and cheap.

[cactusman]

Ho Dougal. Maybe you mis-read. My car had vreidsten HR rated on it when I bought it. Old and hard and perished and nasty.. It now has Blockley 185/70 VR 15 tyres. And yes. MWS knew they were for an E type as they fitted them to the actual car while I waited. I do believe they know what should be fitted to a E type.

I am not familiar with tyre testing/certification stuff but I would imagine that any tyre sold in the UK would be expected to meet some standard, whether Michelin or Blockley. I dare say Michelin perform better than Blockley when driven to extreme but for most of us who abide by the highway code and steer clear of the track it is very unlikely that we will ever have to exploit the out envelope of performance. For me the Blockley tyres do feel much more sure fitted than the hard as nails vreidstein ones. Not to say that vreidstein are bad, just that mine were life expired. [/b]

[steve3.8]

Ho Dougal. Maybe you mis-read. My car had vreidsten HR rated on it when I bought it. Old and hard and perished and nasty.. It now has Blockley 185/70 VR 15 tyres. And yes. MWS knew they were for an E type as they fitted them to the actual car while I waited. I do believe they know what should be fitted to a E type. [/b]

I think Dougal is pointing out that the 70 profile Blockleys you have are wrong because they should be 80 profile to make the rolling circumference correct .

Before making a tyre choice on price alone i would recommend inspecting and handling a selection of brands side by side , there is a big difference in quality , construction and sidewall strength , cornering with the E Type's power and weight even at moderate speeds puts a fair push on its sidewalls ! .

[PeterCrespin]

Before making a tyre choice on price alone i would recommend inspecting and handling a selection of brands side by side , there is a big difference in quality , construction and sidewall strength , cornering with the E Type's power and weight even at moderate speeds puts a fair push on its sidewalls ! .

What does this mean exactly Steve? Are you saying that if you have two tyres in hand and one sidewall is stiffer than the other, it's therefore a 'better' choice? Better in what way? Worse in what way?

If it were a simple case of 'stiffer is better' (no sniggering at the back) we'd all be on crossplies, surely?

[Durango2k]

I can add a short story regarding the Michelin's legendary longevity.

When I found my TA (TractionAvant), it stood 23 years in a dark garage. It had then-NEW tyres fitted, made by "Industria Uruguya PUMA".

They are hard as concrete blocks, and where made in 1993, cast nipples still present all round.

They all had hard low spots where the car sunk into them.

Because of its special metric size, 165x400, there is only one new choice today- fit a Michelin, made in Brasil, costs 185 Euros each inc.

I managed to find used Michelin ones. Made in 1990, used ever since, driven not many miles, 4-5 mm thread left, 25 Euros each.

When fitting them, their rubber feels still so soft like new, incredible. I had a talk to the tyre fitter, and he also said these old Michelins don't really age, and that the cars from the 30s had softer carcasses. He also aggreed that even being 3 yrs older the Michelins are just fine and a good thing to use, whilst the Pumas are outright junk.

I have seen this on DS, too. The original tyres on these cars where used up in the 80s and early 90s, twenty years after the car went off the market.

So- if you don't use them up fast, drive reasonably, at least the front ones can be seen as an invest.

Carsten

P.S. There is an exception to the above- the TRX tyres which were used on the CX + BMW 7series (190 and 210 TRX) hardened rather fast, and often had to be cut away. These cost even more then XVS today, I think its in the 500/tyre region today. German CX drivers recently started rim development- looks the same, fits a modern tyre...

[steve3.8]

What does this mean exactly Steve? Are you saying that if you have two tyres in hand and one sidewall is stiffer than the other, it's therefore a 'better' choice? Better in what way? Worse in what way?

If it were a simple case of 'stiffer is better' (no sniggering at the back) we'd all be on crossplies, surely?

Just my observations Pete when choosing tyres , stiffer sidewalls yes , though i would describe as "a lot more substantial" , for example in hand you cannot depress the sidewall of the cinturato easily if at all , but the Vred's you can , so there is obviously a massive difference in construction. My thought's are that the E's compliant suspension should be allowed to work properly with the tyre tread contacting the road correctly through the suspension travel , not being displaced by soft sidewalls pushed over in cornering .



Steve

[richard btype]

Steve

Given your comparison I concur - my experience of the Vred's on an e type at least, is that they are simply horrible, ghastly!

They provide little contact confidence just in a straight line, and no confidence whatsoever to lean on through a corner. I bought a new set to tied me over what I envisaged would be a seasons summer use only but replaced them straight away - in fact I use them now for the car to sit on during the winter months so not a 'complete waste' of money but pretty close!

[mgcjag]

Hi Richard what Vreds do you have that you dont like.....I have Vred Sprint Classics 185HR15 fitted....never had a problem of no confidence in the grip and i dont just poodle along.......dont know how well they grip in the wet becaus i slow down quite a bit if its a twisty wet road

[PeterCrespin]

My thought's are that the E's compliant suspension should be allowed to work properly with the tyre tread contacting the road correctly through the suspension travel , not being displaced by soft sidewalls pushed over in cornering .

It's a complex business, but in general the stiffer a sidewall the more the contact patch distorts during cornering and the more grip suffers. It also has implications for camber and castor settings, but as long as everyone is happy with what they are running...?