Parts - Getting away from The Usual Suspects ?

[rfs1957]

Keen students of the parts-quality debate might remember these threads

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7511&p=72231&hilit= ... tle#p72231

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9155&p=71940&hilit=lathe#p71940

I exchanged several emails with one of the Usual Suspects last summer that went something like this.

From them, after a 4-week wait for a reply :

Sorry for the delay coming back to you, ref the 2 issues below:-

Clutch bottles – The issue with the new clutch bottle lid depth is something we are aware of, we do monitor the forums from time to time and have seen this raised. We are currently looking to resolve the problem with the fitment of the caps to the bottles, at this moment in time I do not have a resolution but can assure you it is something we are looking at. Ref the old cap not fitting the new bottle, we have supplied these bottles for a few years now and the issue of the original caps fitting is not something we really get asked about, we could look to have the bottles remade to suit the original caps but this would obviously result a price rise which not every customer wants to pay, as you can appreciate we have to appeal to a market with varying budgets.

The issue with the water deflector I am still waiting for an answer on, I have chased this again today and will let you know as soon as I get an answer.

From me :

Thanks for the partial reply, at least.

Would you mind if I took this up with XXXX (ED - the MD), as has been suggested by some of the Forum contributors, or can I go ahead and quote you ?

So we have bottle still wrong, cap still wrong, and the two don't fit each other - you couldn't make it up.

If you know this to be the case, couldn't the web-site warn people that they can't fill the bottle otherwise it will leak ?

People have been raising this with you for years, it is surprising that you are still looking at.

I don't buy the "more expensive if the original caps fitted" any more than (I suspect) you do, and certainly no more than Forum members will.

That the ones you have a lot of stock of were made with the wrong thread, and need shifting first, that I'll buy - but it costs no more to make a correct thread than an incorrect one when blow-moulding.

It staggers me that stuff like this can get remade and still be hopeless ; I worked in low-volume vehicle parts manufacturing, I can therefore guess the sort of margins that are being made on these parts and I believe there is plenty of slack to get these RIGHT.

From them :

Ref the water shields this is currently with our ‘tech guy’ he was hopefully going to assemble and have a look at how they fit. I am away next week but have asked for an update and will let you know on my return.

Deafening silence since August, no reply to that email, no news about either the bottles or the water-deflector issues.

I always felt a certain compassion and indulgence towards these people, resulting from my having run a not dissimilar business in a parallel field for 20 years, but this was starting to wear thin.

I had left many thousands of pounds with these people over the years, and they couldn't even be bothered to answer emails, even less face up to the hopeless quality of some of their products.

I had often noticed references to M+C Wilkinsons in Yorkshire as producers of interesting odd bits-and-bobs, David pops them into the Forum now and then

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6798

but I had imagined that they were not really Mail-Order people.

I was, however, wrong.

I have now started buying parts from them, and a recent order was a lesson in how to do it - I get answers to my emails, I can get someone on the 'phone, I got a picture taken specially in their workshop to show me a detail I needed, and I can get advice from people who actually work on the cars themselves as - critically - they are using the stuff they sell.

Some of the parts they sold me were evidently sourced from the same Usual Suspect, and were sold to me at the same price, but they say they won't sell parts that they know - from trying to fit them - are no good.

So for anyone fancying a change of tack, I wholeheartedly recommend their services.

Just don't clog the 'phone lines when I'm trying to get through, right ?

[Heuer]

Andy Rayner at Hutson's also provides a similar level of service. As you say, they all pretty much source the parts from the same manufacturer so it is not necessarily a total solution, but you do get advice on fitting.

[rfs1957]

I tried Hutsons on several occasions a year or so ago, and really wanted to take my business there, to get my foot in the door before I brought them my car one day ....... but for some reason they seemed a bit out of control at the time, and even admitted as much.

They were delightful to talk to but Mail Order didn't really seem to be their line of business.

Maybe it's changed ? I'd love to live close enough to drop in ..........

I think you, David, probably get better service because they know who you are ............

[288gto]

I'm fortunate in that I only live an hours drive from Hutsons, and sometimes call in person.
I personally, can't put a price on the advice and time Andy gives me. I know certain components they have made or make themselves. They also source parts directly from smaller independent manufacturers. As mentioned above, as with M&C Wilkinson, the parts they have on the shelf, are the parts they are fitting and my logic is that they are the best available for that particular application probably from a trial and error testing process.

What I think would be great, is if Barratts for instance had a product review ability on their website with comments as quite a few companies do. It would be helpful to both seller and buyer alike. More importantly it would allow them to monitor problems with quality and fitment and hopefully take this up with their suppliers.

Reviews such as...
" this is the third one I've had that doesn't work"
"doesn't even fit, returned for refund"
" really pleased, quality item and service"

really would be quite useful.

While we are on the subject, where have forum members bought fuel tank sender units from that have worked for more than 3 minutes?

Thinking about it, an ongoing Forum thread "Recommend a supplier for this part....." might be useful if it was kept tidy.


Simon

[rfs1957]

There would need to be an option on the drop-down list -

"Badly Made and Doesn't Fit, but better than nothing and I managed to adapt it successfully".

This covers about 25% of bits I buy for the Jag, and 50% of the bits for the Mini.

[288gto]

I was trying to be polite

Simon

[Herzeg]

I'm quite shocked that people knowingly sell things they know won't fit. it's misrepresentation at best, fraud at worst.

I'm still an innocent virgin right now as most of the bits going on my car are fitted by Angus, Leon and Murray and they know more than I do. In my business we buy products from around the world, to international standards, and customers know what they are getting. Sadly it seems this business sits around the periphery of the big car manufacturers and their suppliers, and buyers have little guarantees or recourse.

John

[richard btype]

A very useful thread.

As stated, it costs as much to make a bad item as a good one - don't even get me started on the central instrument 'legend' strip (letters too small and incorrect style) 3.8L gear knob - oh dear!

[christopher storey]

Another thumbs up for Hutson's . I have had wonderful service from them for well over 20 years, and their rebuild of my FHC bodyshell ( which included some real stinkers of jobs like eliminating a Webasto roof ) was peerless . Andy Rayner

[Heuer]

I think you, David, probably get better service because they know who you are ............

Not at all! I have met Andy Rayner and he is very knowledgeable and helpful towards everyone; ditto Richard Smith and Julian Barratt amongst many others. The Forum policy is that we are happy to compliment any vendor on good service but we do not allow open criticism - if anyone has a problem they should take it up with the vendor personally and let them resolve it. At the end of the day the weight of positive member opinion pushes business towards the best.

[Whitact]

Fitted a clutch reservoir from M&C Wilkinson recently to replace the two year old one from one of the usuals that had split of its own accord. Good service from M&C and the part was much better made than the one it replaced.
Cheers

[Nickleback]

Andy @ Hutsons
Great advice, products and service - it's all about getting to know suppliers you can trust and building relationship with them

[chrisfell]

I've dealt with one of the usuals for most of my purchases, always satisfactorily. I've bought from several others on one off purchases and again all satisfactory. And I've bought from one supplier on three occassions, each of which they fecked up. As per forum rules, the identity of the rogue will not be revealed.

[vee12eman]

Hi all,

I agree with most of what Chris said. I used the usual suppliers in the first instance in almost all cases, generally starting with SNG, as they were local at the beginning of the restoration. Having built up a relationship with them I stuck with them and bought thousands of £s worth of spare parts. Some did fall short of the quality I hoped for but some of those have since been superseded, for instance, clutch/brake cylinder reservoirs, other items have been modified e.g. S2/3 door mirrors. The vacuum retard unit I bought failed after a few months of use, sadly there was a long gap since purchasing so I didn't try to claim. I received a dead voltage regulator for an S3 alternator but this was rapidly exchanged and Julian Barratt responded positively to all my enquiries when asked (not all that often required). Given the amount of parts I bought, the failure rate was negligible, particularly given that the parts were often reproductions, with all the difficulties that entails.

Other sources were pretty good, although generally only chosen if SNG were out of stock. Even SC Parts, who often get a hard time on here, got me out of trouble with no problems on a couple of occasions, although I did not feel the support and knowledge was as good as SNG. Vicarage provided some hard to source parts and offered excellent advice too.

For fairness I will also mention that David Manners were excellent, and that panels from Robeys were good; and although they always seemed harried and busy when I visited them in person, they were (perhaps surprisingly) extremely helpful and patient plus knowledgeable when seen at shows, even when queues were long

. First port of call is usually SNG, often choosing courier delivery because without VAT, costs are quite low and delivery quicker than from other Australian cities.

Saying that it is not more expensive to make good parts is not always true. A supplier (not SNG) proudly showed me their machine to make plastic parts like cylinder reservoirs, I duly bought them and they fitted but failed quite quickly because the plastic was too thin. A much better quality and therefore expensive machine was needed to include the metal insert and other features.

I work in industry and reliability analysis is part of my role. The parts from the "usual suspects" are generally up to scratch given the relatively small market we comprise.

All the best,

Simon

[Whitact]

On the assumption that some suppliers monitor the forum and to provide some counter point to Simon's post I'd like to share a bit more of my recent experience. I have not yet tackled a full restoration as Simon did so successfully but my cars have had a decent amount spent on parts from a variety of suppliers.
Brake parts have been a particular problem, new master cylinders & servos unusable until rebuilt. A PDWA switch that went back three times until I finally gave up and had the system reconfigured without it. Handbrake pads that disintegrated on first use. Windscreen pillar caps that were so wrong that there was no chance of their being fitted. Speedbalde wipers that are quite useless when it rains. A variety of bits and pieces that although marked with the correct part number were clearly wrong. Like many on the forum I have a box of junk parts that I either did not bother to return or had waited to fit them and I felt it was too late to send them back. I can't think of any other type of tangible purchase where the quality is so consistently unsatisfactory.
I recognise that the suppliers are making it possible for us to continue to use our 50 year old cars and that they have problems with their suppliers from time to time. However, when I have raised concerns directly the response has all too often a shrug of indifference or a claim that this is the first time that a concern has been raised. For good reasons the forum rules do not allow naming and shaming but at least we can recognise the Hutson's & MCWs and call on the others to try harder.
Rant over.
Cheers