Water pump rebuld kit problems

[paulsco]

Hi,

Has anybody successfully fitted one of the David Manners water pump repair kits PK5500?

The kit looks quite good, but there is only one seal i.e. no thrower washer.

I phoned DMC to establish whether the thrower was missing and was told that there is only the three parts to the kit.

The problem is, I can see no way that this is going to seal.

The seal is not tight on the shaft; it is about 1/6” bigger. I thought that perhaps when it was squeezed between the bearing and the impeller, that his might be the way it was intended to seal, but when holding the impeller to the shaft, there appears to be about a 3/16” gap between the seal and impeller if not too much of the shaft protruded out the end.

Picture 8929 by paul scott, on Flickr

Picture 8932 by paul scott, on Flickr

Picture 8931 by paul scott, on Flickr


I Googled PK550 and the xks kit I have found, seems to have a raised area on the shaft, which I assume would make the seal a better fit, although I still don't see how it would seal.

http://xks.com/i-7084499-jaguar-water-p ... k5500.html

The motorcarsltd one has a thrower.

http://www.motorcarsltd.com/pk5500.html

I'm thinking I will send it back, but thought I would ask here first.

Any ideas or advice?

Thanks,

Paul

[288gto]

Not sure if this is any help Paul, as it is for a later 4.2 with the larger impeller but this is what I got in the rebuild kit from Barratts last week. It's the items on the pencil. Photo posted in a recent similar question about the correct orientation of the seal.



Simon

[paulsco]

Hi Simon.

Is the seal and thrower a good fit on the shaft?

The diameter of the shaft on mine is smaller than the original.

This particular kit is for my 340, but it is marked as fitting the E-t-Type as well.

I bought one from SNG for my 4.2 E-type, which had a smaller shaft than the original too. I think all the repair kits are not to original specification. I can't remember now if it had a thrower washer and I don't recall having any issues with it.

I just had a look at the SNG one and it doesn't appear to have a thrower with it ether??

http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... 92a3a3&l=7

Perhaps it's changed since you bought yours??

I bought from DMC because SNG were out of stock, but I had assumed it would be the same kit.

Thanks,

Paul

[288gto]

Paul, that's partly why I posted my question as the new one looked nothing like either of the two pumps I dismantled. The rubber seal does however fit nicely on the shaft. That's the black and white bit as in the order on the pencil.
To be honest I've pretty much resigned myself to it falling apart or leaking water.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10117

Simon

[Mich7920]

Hi Paul,

Sure you miss the second part off the special "seal" that existe in all the standard water pompe.
It's similar at the white part that Simon show you on his pensil.
Search for spare part water pump the name of this seal is mecanical seal.
Here is an exemple :

https://www.aquaflowproducts.co.uk/mechanical-seal-kit/

EVERY pomp building like the E type water pomp, electric or not are obliged to have this seal.
One on the fixed axle the other part on the turning axle. It's made with ceramic or near.

Mich

[paulsco]

Thank you Simon and Mitch for your input.

I have done some research to familiarize myself with these seals.

I can see that these kits are readily available and it is hard to see that they are still being sold if they don't work, so I have decided to fit it and see what happens.

In fact I have already rebuilt the pump and fitted it, but it takes ages on a 340 to get the radiator and everything around it in, as there is so little room, so I haven't finished it yet.

I will let you know if I have been successful or if it leaks

Paul

[Mich7920]

Hi Paul,

Sorry but I think that what I said about your seal is true and false also.
After reflexion, there's a possibility that as there is not a lot of pressure, the well machined back of the turbine replace the white seal.
The turbine has a long back and the axle is not very long.

Mich

[paulsco]

After reflexion, there's a possibility that as there is not a lot of pressure, the well machined back of the turbine replace the white seal.
The turbine has a long back and the axle is not very long.

Exactly my thought Mitch.

Thanks,

Paul

[paulsco]

For those that might be interested in an update, I have rebuilt the pump using the kit and so far it doesn't appear to be leaking.

Picture 8922 by paul scott, on Flickr

The grove in the bearing that the grub screw locates in is insufficient for the grub screw to hold the bearing in place sufficiently, so I widened it with an angle grinder. not very neat; the grinder slipped, but no one will know :-)

Picture 8939 by paul scott, on Flickr

Picture 8934 by paul scott, on Flickr

Picture 8935 by paul scott, on Flickr

Picture 8940 by paul scott, on Flickr

I mistakenly put the front pulley carrier on the wrong way around at first (this is the right way) and had to us the puller again to get it right.

Picture 8941 by paul scott, on Flickr


Picture 8942 by paul scott, on Flickr



The last picture shows the difference between the original impeller and the new one. I am not entirely happy with this, as there may be some restriction in the flow.

My first test of the car in the garage show it getting quite hot, but not overheating. I am not sure if this is due to the the fact that the 340 does not have an electric fan and needs to be on the move to cool adequately.

It has always been marginal and I tend to use water wetter, which I have not yet put in.
We will see.

Paul

[288gto]

Thanks for posting an update Paul.

I was ready to post a rant that would probably got me banned when I attempted mine.

I had fun and games with my S2 one, not helped by the supplier not seeming too interested in any form of technical support for the product they sell. I too ended up grinding a slot with a dremel to locate the grub screw properly. The importance of locating the bearing correctly and stopping any forward and back movement cannot be stressed too much. If it moves in towards the block, there is potential for the impeller chewing chunks out of the timing chain cover.

Unfortunately for me I won't know if it's all ok until the engine is finished at Guy Broad's

Another observation was that one end of the bearing shaft had been badly sleeved to a larger diameter to accept the new impeller. This in turn seems to had a knock on effect on the fitment of the rubber/ceramic seal as the shaft is too large. It is all together now but going on what a pain it was to assemble I'm not too confident. I will probably just ask Guy to fit a new one.

Back to yours, I would be worried about how much water that new impeller is capable of pumping. They increased the size of the impeller to overcome this problem. Your manufacturer has after extensive testing and computer flow simulation decided to reduce the size.

Simon

[johnetype]

I phoned DMC to establish whether the thrower was missing and was told that there is only the three parts to the kit.

The problem is, I can see no way that this is going to seal.

For anyone coming back to this post trying to understand how to repair your water pump it may help to know that the seal doesn't seal to the shaft of the pump, it seals on the nose of the impeller. The impeller is a tight fit on the shaft so water can't get out. The Jaguar Service Manual gives a good and accurate description of how the pump comes apart and goes back together but current repair kits have dispensed with the "thrower" so don't worry about looking for it.