Improving my S3

[marsh]

Morning everyone,

Some of you will have seen from the welcome thread that I've just purchased an S3 Coupe and would like to commence a programme of improvements to make the car more usable.

I'm looking at some of Rob Beere's products, which seem to be very well thought of and wanted some opinions from the forum. I don't want to go mad in terms of spend - probably increments of ?2k or so fitted, plus I do want to maintain the originality of the car wherever possible - I'm not a fan of some of the 'ultimate conversions' out there, but I know that's a personal view.

In the first instance I was thinking of fitting silicone hoses, a Rob Beere adjustable power steering kit, one of their own air filters and an oil cooler.

Over time, I'd like to consider a fast road head, improved (i.e. louder) exhaust and eventually, a Weber conversion, though on other threads there is talk of this costing ?10k+, which worries me, given the cost of the system appears to be closer to ?3k unfitted.

Any views would be much appreciated, plus if any of you have been delighted with a particular Jaguar specialist in the Leicestershire/Nottinghamshire area for servicing, I'd like to hear from you - feel free to send me a private message as I am conscious of forum etiquette.

Best regards

Marsh

[christopher storey]

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but this is a 40 year old motor car, and one which even by today's standards is staggeringly fast, particularly in real terms rather than 0-60 dashes. It is also extremely refined. The law of diminishing returns applies - you will spend mega money to achieve what in real terms is only a marginal increase in performance, and at the same time you are likely to ruin the refinement . The Webers is IMHO a spectacularly bad idea - these are carbs which have grave limitations for road use : they are a full throttle carburetter and are nothing like as adaptable as either SU or for that matter the standard CDs . If you want to spend money on an E successfully, the key lies in making sure that its spec, particularly re the suspension, is as good as it was when new. Dave Marks in Nottingham is a very straight and very knowledgeable Jaguar man ( he has done much work on the Heritage cars) but make sure that he personally oversees work . CMC in Bridgnorth are equally reputable . For bodywork , I do not think that Hutson's in bradford can be beaten . No-one you go to will produce faultless work - on these cars it is very difficult indeed to do so, but all these names in my experience bend over backwards to see that you are satisfied

[Heuer]

Marsh

1. Silicone hoses - pointless, look tacky and difficult to fit because they are so thick. The rubber/cotton ones work fine.

2. Webers - fine if you like the smell of petrol all the time. As Christopher says - avoid. If you want to upgrade, fit EFI. See the thread below this one. Suggest you talk to Harry at E-Type UK or AJ6: http://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/efi_conversion.php

3. Adjustable power steering - good upgrade

4. Exhaust - AJ6 sell two systems which appear good value: http://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/exhaust1.php

5. Servicing - David Marsh - Nottingham, Ken Verity - Doncaster, CMC - Bridgenorth, E-Type UK - Kent.

[MarkE]

Hi Marsh and welcome
I think that Christopher and David offer great advice, but they are both 6 cylinder lads, and think that the V12 is the work of the devil :D
There are a couple of things you can do that will give instant rewards.

Firstly, you can get the power steering rack re-valved to give much more feeling and feedback, getting rid of the ludicrously ?driving on ice? feeling. CMC will provide a kit, or do the job for you. You?re only talking about a few hundred pounds fitted, and it transforms the car.

Secondly, you can get a more sporty exhaust system from AJ6 engineering. They come in a couple of degrees of noise from boy racer to very, very loud. The boy racer one sounds just right to me, and would be a pleasant sound track on a long run. The very loud one sounds absolutely stunning, but I would have a headache after an hour. Again, a new system isn?t too pricey at around ?1000.

http://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/exhaust1.php

As for carburettors, I?m very biased but have admitted defeat. I?ve had Lotus Twincam cars for over 30 years, all fitted with webers, and all totally roadable. They tickover properly, are very progressive and stay in tune for a long time, having less moving parts to go wrong. Even my Elite, fitted with a 1200 cc Coventry Climax engine has a pair of weber twinchokes fitted (about the same size as the engine) and it?s absolutely fine. Very reliable, fairly economical, no spitting back and no smell of petrol. In fact most Elites came with twin SUs, but they have caused so many engine bay fires over the years that most are now fitted with webers.

However, it?s a different story with the Jag engines, both 6 and 12 cylinder. Without considerable head, valve, cam and exhaust manifold work, webers just don?t work on the E Types. The engines are low reving low power (to cc) and the webers will over-fuel them if just bolted onto a standard engine...hence David's comment about the smell of petrol. It's not a weber fault, it's just a technical incompatibility. The reason that you?re being quoted ?10k to fit the webers is to complete the head and manifold work as well to make the webers work properly. Remember that the V12 in standard form produces close to 50 bhp per litre, whist the 1960s Lotus and Alfas, with their much smaller engines, produce close on 100 bhp per litre, which requires very different engine characteristics.

Mind you, if you do spend the ?10k - ?15k on the V12 engine with webers, you will have a fantastic engine, heading up around 400 bhp and sounding absolutely stunning. It will also be doing 5 mpg, if you?re careful. And you won?t be, as the webers deliver the best noise when fully open! That will give you a range of around 50 miles with a standard tank of fuel.

It depends what you want to use the car for of course. Given the suspension and tyres of the standard S3, the performance of the standard engine really is more than you can use on the road. I would recommend the exhaust mods to get the sound you want, the steering rack mods so you don?t frighten yourself silly when hopping in for the first time in a while, and use the car on the road for a few months to see what else you may need.

Of growing popularity is a fuel injection conversion, which overcomes the horror that is Stromberg, combined with a 5 speed box. However, a couple of things to consider. If you?re only going to drive the car 3000 miles or so a year, it may not be worth the expense of the injection mods?.just get the carburettors set up properly in the annual service. And whilst a 5 speed box provides lower revs at cruising speeds, the aerodynamics of the car make the wind noise quite intrusive at anything over 90 mph. And at 90 mph, the engine sounds pretty good with the 4 speed box, especially with the sporty exhaust system.

[marsh]

Gentlemen

Thank you for all your feedback - that certainly gives me something to think about!

I'll put any thoughts of Webers on hold for the time being, but will further investigate the power steering conversion and will update you on my progress. The car is being delivered on Friday, so watch out for more news coming soon.

Can't wait...

Marsh

[Aldeburgh]

Hi there,

I have the AJ6 TT Torque extractor system fitted to my S3 coupe. I can vouch for the improvement in mid-range torque but the main reason for fitting it is the noise.... fabulous.

I do intend to record a little video and post it at some stage - this will allow you to judge for yourself.

[e-bygum]

With regards to the S3 power steering feel (too light) there is a Jaguar Tech. Service Bulletin dated 1971 which authorises dealers to fit a 50 thou. thick washer in the pump valve to reduce the relief pressure from 1150psi to 850/800psi. This Bulletin was brought out to overcome customer complaints of leaking seals in the rack ends.
I know very little about power steering but would reducing the relief pressure give better feel?

Secondly why is "adjustable" power steering a good upgrade?

Pete

[MarkE]

The modification to reduce the assistance certainly improves the feel of the steering. In standard form, there is virtually no resistance when you turn the wheel. If you?re going around a corner without power steering you can feel more effort required as it goes round. If the car starts to under steer the steering goes lighter. With a ?modern? power assisted rack that feeling is retained, but with the super-light assistance of the E Type rack, you can?t feel the resistance in the first place, hence you don?t know when the front starts to break away.

This is particularly important in the wet, or in the conditions we currently have, where you could hit some ice very easily without knowing it.

As for adjustable power steering, I?m not sure what that is. Modern cars use variable power steering, where more assistance is applied at parking speeds, and virtually none at zipping along speed. Perhaps this is also known as adjustable? Otherwise I guess it?s a feature where you can dial in the amount of assistance you want by adjustment of the valve pressure in some way, and it stays at that level of assistance?

If the last point is the case then it seems a bit of a novelty, as, like adjustable shock absorbers, everybody would probably put them on one setting and leave them!

[Heuer]

Mark

Yes, the adjustable power steering allows you to change assistance on the move if necessary. Unlike 'adjustable' Koni's which require removal from the car this modification at least seems sane. Modern power steering automatically varies its assistance with speed - lots of help whilst parking and virtually none on the motorway. As retro-fitting such a feedback loop in an old car would be difficult the option of driver controlled assistance is provided. The system Rob Beere offers modifies the existing S3 power steering with the addition of a valve in the cockpit. M&C Wilkinson and E-Type Fabs offer an electronic power assistance upgrade for S1 and S2 cars. This bolts to the steering column and uses an electric motor to provide assistance, again adjustable.

http://www.jaguar-spares-uk.co.uk/power-steering.html
http://www.etypefabs.com/steering.htm
http://www.rob-beere-racing.co.uk/xjs-p ... ml#powerst

[MarkE]

I figured that was the case, David. I tend that I go along with one of Colin Chapman?s basic principles:

"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong -- look what they can do to a Weber carburettor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."

He didn?t have a lot of respect for his road car customers, and quite rightly in most cases!

However the lightness of the steering is one of the very few weaknesses on the S3, with issues of braking, cooling and seating comfort having been resolved from the S1. It was criticised at the time, and I guess was only implemented to increase the appeal of the car for the American market.

In this instance it sounds like a good enhancement at ?160, and pretty well impossible to get it wrong. Unless adjusting the settings on the move of course?now that does sound pretty daft!!

[e-bygum]

The modification to reduce the assistance certainly improves the feel of the steering. In standard form, there is virtually no resistance when you turn the wheel. If you?re going around a corner without power steering you can feel more effort required as it goes round. If the car starts to under steer the steering goes lighter. With a ?modern? power assisted rack that feeling is retained, but with the super-light assistance of the E Type rack, you can?t feel the resistance in the first place, hence you don?t know when the front starts to break away.

Mark
Is the modification you speak of the CMC revalve job for a 3 figure price or the 10p DIY washer that Jaguar specify? Maybe they are both the same thing?

Pete

[MarkE]

I don't know, Pete, but I'll ask the guys at CMC when I go and pick up my Coupe....been waiting for ages and now I'm snowed in!!

My S3 is still a virgin, with no mods on whatsoever. However, I tried a mate's S3 a few months ago with the 're-valved' CMC mod, and it felt transformed...much like a modern car.

So it's on the list of things to do to the S3 this year, but tell us about the Jaguar mod....I'm quite happy to speculate the 10p !!

Stop Press!! I've just looked at the CMC site, and they don't seem to have the re-valving mod any more, but they do have a 'sports steering' upgrade....
"Turn your V12 E-Type into the real sports car it should be by getting rid of the awful 1970's power steering.

"Grand Tourer" rather than a sports car largely due to its very light and vague power steering system. We have developed a superb steering conversion using a modern power steering rack which gives very good weight and feel and makes turning into corners much more precise. This allows the car to become a true sports car and gives the driver much more feel and confidence. Our conversion is supplied with everything needed to carry out the conversion. Simply remove the original steering rack, rack mountings and power steering hoses and fit the new parts supplied. There are no alterations required to the body. All parts are bolt on using the original Jaguar mounting points. Left and right hand drive conversions available."

The downside is that it's ?800 ish, but that's less than I had to pay to get an original RHD rack for my LHD S3!!

Here's the link....

http://www.classic-motor-cars.co.uk/upg ... etype.html

[V12 Epyte]

Sng also list a v12 Sports Steering Conversion. Kit C39264

Link http://www.sngbarrett.com/calogue/parts ... p?id=18751

Thanks John

[Woolfi]

I have done a change to a better steering-feeling on my EV12 OTS with a simple and cheap change in 30 minutes.
1. Dismount the hose from the servo-pump to the steering rack. Some hydraulic oil is comming out. I can't remember well, but maybe you have to dismount another screw, unless you can pull out the pressure limitter-valve. It is roundabout 12 mm in diameter and roundabout 5 cm long. Push your finger 2 cm deep inside the hole and a spring will push out the valve. This is the outer spring of the valve.
You can unscrew the valve and open it. The inner spring is comming out. If you check this in a typical parts catalog, you will understand, what I would like to explain.
I have reduced the length of this spring with a grinder. Maybe I have done 4 to 6 mm less. Then mount all and do a test ride. In my car the steering is now not anymore superlight and gives a better feeling.
If you shorten the spring to much, the steering while standing will becomme very hard. I have done the grinding in two steps, unless the steering while standing becomes maybe 100 % harder.
I think this changing is working same like to mount one of these "steering adjustment" kits. But with these kits you can adjust different levels.
It would be good, of you have a spare spring. If you don't like the result, you change to the original spring. Maybe it is not possible, to buy only the spring or the valve. Maybe you will be able, to find a cheap damaged power pump in ebay or in a shop for used parts. If I am correct a lot of US-Cars have these type of power pumps.
All the work is done in maximum two hours, if you are quick in 30 minutes.
Attention please: if you mount the power limitter valve wrong by 180 degree, you have zero power assitance. Therefore watch the positon of the valve, when it "jumpes" out of the pump.
If you want to mount such a steering adjustment kit, you have to do additional "pipework".
Kind regards Wolfgang Gatza (Germany)
You have to excuse my poor school english.

[Heuer]

Great write up Wolfgang, great use of English - keep contributing