Front suspension plating

[Hugo]

I need a bit more advice on plating my front suspension; I've had all the wishbones & mounting lugs etc done; now I'm looking at the stub axles etc. I've stripped them all down, but what I'm not clear about is whether the steering arm is plated as well as the stub axle carrier. No evidence of plating on the original steering arms, whereas everything else still shows signs of it. Also, I'm hoping I can get the whole assembly (stub axle, carrier and steering arm) plated as a unit without further dismantling. If I mask off the stub axle, can that be done? I would ask the platers, but they're closed today.
I was surprised that the left hand wheel bearing is held on with a right hand thread nut, and also by how tiny that outer bearing seems.
Finally, what colour should the calipers be? I hope I don't have to strip them down to plate them also!

[christopher storey]

If you just tape the stub axle itself off, it will be perfectly possible to plate the rest as a unit. I did mine that way . The stub axles really only should be separated as a last resort - it can require a 30 tonne press and much in the way of safety precautions to do the job, and they go with a most enormous bang . Some people do plate the calipers but in my opinion they look best painted black, and this can easily be redone every year or two with motorcycle exhaust paint

[JagWaugh]

I need a bit more advice on plating my front suspension; I've had all the wishbones & mounting lugs etc done; now I'm looking at the stub axles etc. I've stripped them all down, but what I'm not clear about is whether the steering arm is plated as well as the stub axle carrier. No evidence of plating on the original steering arms, whereas everything else still shows signs of it. Also, I'm hoping I can get the whole assembly (stub axle, carrier and steering arm) plated as a unit without further dismantling. If I mask off the stub axle, can that be done? I would ask the platers, but they're closed today.
I was surprised that the left hand wheel bearing is held on with a right hand thread nut, and also by how tiny that outer bearing seems.
Finally, what colour should the calipers be? I hope I don't have to strip them down to plate them also!

Talk to your plater, He should be able to give you a masking paint which with survive his cleaning and plating baths, but is easily removeable once he's done. Failing that (and for a few dollars more), take a booklet of pics with your parts, talk through the job with him and mark every bit that you don't want plated.

If they're not damaged, then leave your stub axles in - they're bugger me difficult to remove, and not particularly easy to fit.

The calipers should be bright... but if you're not big on originality, have them do a black passivate on the Zinc, then treat that with a wax or something like fish oil. Black hides the brake dust, and black zinc won't power wash off like most of the caliper paint sets do. Split the calipers. It makes installing the seals and pistons a doddle.

Most mechanisms that are riveted together (like door lock mechanisms) you can just zink plate as is. Take any springs out before you send them for plating, as it usually doesn't do much good to the springs.

[mgcjag]

Hi Hugo...if you have a press (20ton) then go for seperating the stub axle....ive done it on my car and 2 others..just dont remove the nut fully that way when it gives it dosent fly across the workshop...saves the problem of the plater damaging it

[Hugo]

Thank you - I do have a 30 ton press, but I reckon it will take all of that to get that pin out. It's been in there for nearly fifty years, and if I can leave it alone I would prefer to do so! I had enough trouble persuading the bottom ball joints out!
If I'm lucky I might not have to touch the calipers - all the brake components seem to have been replaced already. Pads are new - hoses are new - when I got the car the only thing missing was brake fuid - as I found out during an exciting few moments when it was rolling off the transporter backwards at an alarming rate because the winch brake let go: - no footbrake; handbrake miles out of adjustment, and that's when I found out the clutch was slipping so badly it wouldn't even slow the car down when I stuck it in gear & let the clutch up. It rolled into my motorcycle & knocked that over, hitting the back of another car, upon which my wife, ever helpful, said "Anybody could see that was going to happen". Thanks for telling us, darling.

[abowie]

Separate everything, plate everything separately including the bolts. If you can get cadmium plating done use it. Otherwise bright zinc will do.

The steering arms should be plated as well.

The stub axles can be stubborn but I've taken a lot of them out without failing yet. Sometimes they do need a big press but the one we have at the workshop is small and old but usually does the job. Put it under tension then tap it sharply with a hammer. Loosen but do not remove the big nyloc nut that holds it; this will stop it shooting across the workshop. They go with a bang; wear ear muffs.
I spray the calipers with silver caliper paint.

[Hugo]

Thanks - I might have to do that, as I've just noticed there is a wear ridge on the axle shaft where the inner bearing has been spinning. If it was still on the car I would just Loctite it, but if I'm going to deal with it, now is the time to do it I guess. This is why these jobs always seem to go backwards, isn't it!

[Series1 Stu]

Hugo

The reason the hub nuts are both right hand threads is because they aren't subject to any rotating forces. They nip the ground washer up against the outer bearing's inner race, pushing the rollers into contact with the outer race. The inner race does not rotate therefore a right hand thread and split pin is all that is required.

Cheers

[Hugo]

I know the inner race of the outer bearing shouldn't spin, but mine have! I know that washer should stop the nut turning, but every car I have ever seen with tapered wheel bearings has a left-hand thread on the left side. Even cheap old Ford Anglias and the like (that dates me, doesn't it!). Quality cars even had left-hand wheel nuts on the left (for the same reason that centre-lock wheel have a left-hand thread on the right - precession I think it's called). It just struck me as odd when I was pulling it all to bits last night. I did wonder whether somebody might have fitted a right-hand stub axle on the left.

[PeterCrespin]

I was surprised that the left hand wheel bearing is held on with a right hand thread nut, and also by how tiny that outer bearing seems.

The washer is a thick, hard D washer that cannot ever rotate on the D-shaped axle threaded section. Therefore the nut is never turned to loosen. They used the exact same bearing system until 1996 and the first of the V8 models that came with a deep-groove cartridge bearing (a PITA to change without special tools).

As for size, the outer bearing is basically there to keep the hub lined up with the stub axle. The inner bearing does most of the work. On the cartridge bearings referenced above, there are twin ball races in one bearing and IIRC the inboard race is likewise the larger/deeper one of the two and the outer one performs a supporting roll [sic]

[Hugo]

Oh yes, I know the washer can't turn, and I know the wheels don't fall off. But every car with tapered bearings has a similar set-up, and I don't know a single other one that uses a right-hand thread on the left.
Funny how the sub-conscious mind works, isn't it? I woke up this morning with a potential solution (to my loose bearings) in my head: - I might make up a spacer and shim them out. That way I can bolt the whole assembly up tight, which is a more satisfactory way of mounting the hubs anyway.
As regards the bearing, obviously somebody has calculated the loads, but it just looks comparatively small to my eyes. Astons are the same, for some reason. I think the Morris Minor has a bigger outer wheel bearing!

[JagWaugh]

Oh yes, I know the washer can't turn, and I know the wheels don't fall off. But every car with tapered bearings has a similar set-up, and I don't know a single other one that uses a right-hand thread on the left.
Funny how the sub-conscious mind works, isn't it? I woke up this morning with a potential solution (to my loose bearings) in my head: - I might make up a spacer and shim them out. That way I can bolt the whole assembly up tight, which is a more satisfactory way of mounting the hubs anyway.
As regards the bearing, obviously somebody has calculated the loads, but it just looks comparatively small to my eyes. Astons are the same, for some reason. I think the Morris Minor has a bigger outer wheel bearing!

Given the high cornering forces that an angry Moggy can develop, it's not that surprising that they've big bearings. Which Aston? The DB 2/4 front axle is about as meaty as they get - you can tell that DB had something or other to do with tanks just by glancing at it!

New stub axles aren't that expensive, and you can replace them without resorting to extreme measures. I would say send them to be plated with the old stubs in, or mask the taper in the carrier - you don't want soft zinc in there. If you were just replacing a spun bearing then Loctite would be a viable option, and if they weren't available you could have the area built up with hard nickel plate... but you've got it all apart, you have a press, and you're sending the bits off to the plater - this is a time when "as new" overrides "good enough".

[288gto]

................I woke up this morning with a potential solution (to my loose bearings) in my head: - I might make up a spacer and shim them out. That way I can bolt the whole assembly up tight, which is a more satisfactory way of mounting the hubs anyway.

http://www.rob-beere-racing.co.uk/suspension.html

Scroll down to "Stub Axle Spacer"


Simon

[Hugo]

Well I'm buggered - I must be psychic! I said that axle looked skinny - the thought of it flexing under load is pretty scary! It mentions early (thin) and late (thick) stub axles. Mine is a 1970/71 Series II - surely I can't be looking at the thicker axle?

[JagWaugh]

Well I'm buggered - I must be psychic! I said that axle looked skinny - the thought of it flexing under load is pretty scary! It mentions early (thin) and late (thick) stub axles. Mine is a 1970/71 Series II - surely I can't be looking at the thicker axle?

I know what you mean, and I don't want to say that the engineering on every part in an E is absolutely perfect, but...

Beere is selling upgrades for track use. Are you planning to campaign your car on the track? (a car properly set up for track use is generally unpleasant to operate in every day traffic)

If the Stub axles were a weak point in regular or even "fast road" use, wouldn't you expect to have read stories of broken stub axles here, or on any other Jaguar forum? (I just searched Jag-lovers for "Broken Stub Axle"... most of the posts there are posting about damage to the outer end or bearings because someone overtightened the nut.)

If they were a common failure then I would expect the regular suppliers would offer a similar uprated item.

[Hugo]

Oh no, I'm not saying they're inadequate - they obviously do the job, but it sounds like they can and do flex if you lean on them hard enough. This is not something that would bother me - I can't see me being the first person ever to snap one and I'm not going racing - but a spacer sounds like an easy fix for my spinning bearings - and a preventative measure to stop them spinning in future, plus being a more satisfactory method of fixing. I'm just happier if it's all bolted up solid. I can see why Jaguar chose the easy option for their assembly lines though.
How do you damage the threads by over-tightening the stub axle nut? I mean, I know how to do it - what I mean is how can anybody be that stupid?

[JagWaugh]

How do you damage the threads by over-tightening the stub axle nut? I mean, I know how to do it - what I mean is how can anybody be that stupid?

*cough* How long have you been on the planet Hugo? Do they only have short handled rachets on your home planet?

[Hugo]

I just assumed that Jaguar owners would be a bit more intelligent than that! Mind you, when I look back at some of the stupid things I did when I was younger.........

[JagWaugh]

Mind you, when I look back at some of the stupid things I did when I was younger.........

Is that a challenge? Put some money down, I love easy money...

I never ended up in the Emergency ward, but I'm pretty sure that there are more than a few protective angels who had to take early retirement because of me.

[Hugo]

Doesn't bear thinking about! Now, having taken the wheel bearings out and washed all the gunge of them, I can see that the outer bearing has been rubbing - hard! - against the D washer. I find that slightly alarming. I know it will take a heck of a lot to make that washer rotate, but it's a bit close for comfort. Rob Beere's spacer it is then.