Painters in Surrey / Hampshire

[ChrisC]

Greetings all.

I have finally got the bodywork close(ish) to being ready for paint. Can anyone recommend a few painters so that i can obtain quotes etc.

I popped into Racing Green and their paint shop chap was not there at the time, but I know that they will be on the more expensive side.

What kind of figure am I looking at these days?

Cheers

CC

[1954Etype]

Greetings all.

I have finally got the bodywork close(ish) to being ready for paint. Can anyone recommend a few painters so that i can obtain quotes etc.

I popped into Racing Green and their paint shop chap was not there at the time, but I know that they will be on the more expensive side.

What kind of figure am I looking at these days?

Cheers

CC

I know Hutsons quote around 6k.

[Heuer]

Give Harry at E-Type UK (Kent) a call - click on logo in top left to get details.

[ChrisC]

When companies are saying ?6-12k for a respray, surely this cant be for paint application only. It doesnt take that many hours to squirt paint over a car and the materials can only be around ?1000 (although I am guessing that bit).

Are most companies expecting to do a lot of block sanding / preparation before painting?

Any help is appreciated because i dont want to spend months sanding the primer down if the painter is fully expecting to do it.

FYI - Etype (UK) have been helpfull on several counts to date - thanks for the pointer in their direction Heuer

[MarkE]

Chris, this is a huge subject and has a huge range of prices, depending on the condition of the car you take to the paintshop, what results you?re expecting, how much work you do in stripping and rebuilding the car afterwards.

If you took a completely bare shell with the separate bare doors, bonnet and boot, perfectly prepared, dry and wiped down, and all you wanted was the colour coat, then you?d be looking at 2 or 3 days work plus paint?.maybe ?1500 / ?1800. This, by the sound of it, is what you?re expecting to do if all you want is for them to ?squirt paint over the car?. No masking, no prep, just paint.

For a drive in / drive out job, the body shop first has to strip out the bonnet, bumpers, chrome trim, remove the doors, glass, rubber trim, handles, wiper spindles, washer jets, lights?.etc. etc. and then remove all the old paint. Assuming there is no rust and the body is perfectly straight with correct panel clearances, then all they have to do is mask off, build up the paint with the etch layer, filler layer and the colour layer, rubbing it all back and re-masking between coats. Then they have to build the car back up. For that sort of job you?re looking at ?10k to ?15k. That?s assuming you leave the engine in place and don?t want the engine bay, inside the boot or the floors painted.

If you have any issues of panel fit, gap clearances, rust or poor previous repairs sorted out then you can easily double the ?15k and lot more.

?6k to ?8k will buy you a bare-metal respray, without removing the doors, tailgate / boot, but with removing the chrome trim, glass etc. This is the place most quotes start from, assuming that they will be doing all the work. But remember that it can escalate once the old paint is removed and the real state of the metal underneath is revealed.

The problem with doing the preparation at home is twofold. Trapping any moisture under the primer coat or high build coat will result in micro-blisters some months after the car is finished, and working in a normal garage that isn?t heated to a constant level or de-humidified, you will trap moisture. Secondly, you will need to use materials compatible with the paint coat that will be used by the bodyshop, and this is probably going to be two-pack, or if they are brave, the new water-based paint.. You will need to spray the etch coat and build coat in two pack, and to do that, you will need a ventilator suit / headset and some extraction?unless you can hold your breath for a couple of hours! Using aerosols from Halfords or cellulose from the local motor factors (if you can get it) will guarantee a lousy result.

The bottom line is that the paint finish is only as good as the preparation. The colour layer will hide nothing, and any poor preparation will be exagerated once the shiny new finish goes on.

You pays your money and takes your choice!

[ChrisC]

Gosh that must have taken some to write. Thankyou :D

Yuh my car is an absolutely empty shell, fully sandblasted to bare metal repaired and now in primer, ready for its first guide coat. I imagine that it will need *some* work to bring it up to a ready-for-paint level though.

This is why i was trying to get a feel for prices because it will be tricky to transport the shell to enable people to provide estimates.

I am also now worried about the moisture under the primer comment because it has taken me ages to get to this point :? if blistering occurs later on a ?8-10k paintjob, i will be slightly miffed and may as well have sprayed it myself... i feel quite depressed now :(

[Tony]

Chris,

Like yourself I would want a perfect paint job for 10-12k even if had put the primer on. How they get it to that price amazes me.


On another point how do you manage to get inside the front and rear box sections and sills. If there are signs of rust, how do you treat it, or do you just fill it with Waxoyl and hope for the best. I have often wondered as it would always annoy me knowing there maybe rust in there lurking to get out

Don't get to depressed, I have not even got my car yet and I am beginning to wonder if there is a rust free car out there that I will not have to spend the huge amounts of money getting it right.

Good luck with the search for a good paint job and keep us updated on the eventual cost.

[Heuer]

Chris

Start ringing around and asking for ball park quotes. Most decent paint shops will want to take the car back to bare metal to be sure there are no lurking dangers which will result in warranty claim against them further down the road. Also try these:

Alan Proctor (restoration) http://www.jagrestoration.com/
Paul Roach (service, bodywork, restoration): http://www.paulroachjaguar.co.uk/Home.htm

Explain where you are at and get their views. Both highly regarded and reputable. Like others here I am guessing your are into around ?10k.

[MarkE]

Chris, I?ve done a lot of bodywork on cars, so it didn?t take long to write?just 30 years of getting it wrong and learning!

I fear that you may be jumping the gun a little in preparing the bodywork for paint at this stage. The vital bit to do after stripping and acid-etching the shell, and any metal repairs, is to ensure that everything fits together properly?.a kind of ?dry? build.

You need to get the frames on the bulkhead and the bonnet on the frames to ensure that you have the correct bonnet-to-tub gap and panel alignment. This will have changed if any work has been done on the bonnet or around the bulkhead / A posts, or if you have new frames (if they fit). Same for the boot / tailgate and doors, and the rubber seals have to be fitted and the panels loaded with their normal weight. The door handles, catches and latches all have to be fitted as well as the bonnet catches.

You then need to fit up the bumpers and front and rear lights to ensure that they still fit the curves. This includes the headlamp chrome rings. If anything has changed around the windscreen or tailgate apertures, then I?m afraid that the glass has to be fitted as well.

All this is quite a big job, but absolutely necessary as you won?t be able to do anything about it once the painting is complete. Remember that when your panels were stripped, there may well have been some filler stripped as well that made things look like they fitted well, but now won?t.

Once everything has been fitted, and any remedial work completed (which may require some components being taken off and refitted a few times), then you can take the whole lot apart again and start the paint preparation.

My apologies if you?ve done all this, but I?ve seen thousands of pounds / many hours of work wasted by folks missing out or skimping on this stage. Any body shop will insist on doing this if they are expected to do the panel fitting after painting.

Tony, to explain where the money goes, my S3 bare metal re-paint ( back in 2004) went something like this.

The Strip Down
Strip off the bumpers, lights, windscreen, hood, chrome, wipers. Strip doors and remove. Remove bonnet and boot?1 day

Strip paint (sanding machine) ?1 day for shell and doors, 1 day for bonnet (inside and outside).

Strip paint (nooks and crannies) by hand?..4 days (loads of work around door apertures, doors and under bonnet).

We now have a bare body and total spend is 7 days.

Getting Everything Straight
Metal repairs to air scoop and replacement of federal rubber bumpers with UK spec bumpers?1 day

Panel work for small dinks and dents?1 day

Clean off shell and panels, mask shell?.1 day

Apply acid etch red oxide?.1 day

Remove masking, dry de-nib red oxide, clean off all panels?1 day

The Painting
Mask shell and paint all panels with high-build primer?1 day

Apply guide coat, remove mask and flat by hand all panels?.2 days

Mask shell and paint all panels with high-build primer (cover coat)?1 day

Remove masking, de-nib primer coat and clean back all panels?2 days

Mask shell, final clean, mix paint ?.1 day

Apply first 3 or 4 coats of colour?.1 day

Apply last coats of colour ?..1 day

Remove masking, hand-flat final paint??1 day

Replace boot, bonnet, hood and doors and build back all parts?.3 days.

Grand total 25 days, spread out over 3 months.

At ?30 / hour and 8 hours a day total spend is ?240/day , total ?6000.

Add in ?1500 for paint and materials, ?500 for a windscreen, new rubbers and a few other bits and pieces?..total spend ?8000 (plus 17.5% of course!).

You can probably add 20% to that cost nowadays.

This was on a car that had never been restored or repaired before, was totally rust free, had no accident damage (other than where other cars had opened doors against the car) and had perfect clearances all round. The underside of the bonnet was painted, but the engine frames and bulkhead were not, and the engine remained in place. Most cars will need a lot more metalwork than mine did, and a fair bit more preparation time before the paint due to additional metalwork and previous poor repairs.

I?ve fully painted 4 cars previously, and done local repairs to countless others, and can get the same results as the professionals. The difference is that everything takes me at least 5 times longer than a professional will take, probably closer to 10 times on some jobs, and it can only be done in the warmer days due to humidity. To test out the time theory, try it yourself on an old panel, and see just how long it takes to do stuff. A pro can rub down paint for 6 or 8 hours a day?I can do it for about an hour or so before my arm is dropping off! So the actual time for me to do this work would be somewhere in the region of 150 days bloomin? hard graft, over an elapsed year or two. And remember, that?s without any of the skilled panel beating required to sort out poorly fitting panels, rusty panels etc. etc.

Looks like a bargain now, eh Tony?!

[1954Etype]

Gosh that must have taken some to write. Thankyou :D

Yuh my car is an absolutely empty shell, fully sandblasted to bare metal repaired and now in primer, ready for its first guide coat. I imagine that it will need *some* work to bring it up to a ready-for-paint level though.

This is why i was trying to get a feel for prices because it will be tricky to transport the shell to enable people to provide estimates.

I am also now worried about the moisture under the primer comment because it has taken me ages to get to this point :? if blistering occurs later on a ?8-10k paintjob, i will be slightly miffed and may as well have sprayed it myself... i feel quite depressed now :(

Great advice from Mark. The other thing to remember is only use a shop that know E Types. You can get a great paint job but won't be able to put the car back together.

Angus

[Tony]

Mark,

I must bow to your 30 years experience and my total lack of experience. I would have thought 6k for the actual painting was reasonable if all other work had been carried out by Chris.

The point about having a dry fit of all the parts makes sense, however I would not have thought of that.

I am learning slowly by asking questions. This used to annoy my old Tutors, but I continued to ask until I fully understood. I just hope the forum do not get fed up with questions. I now know a lot more than before I joined and still not enough to avoid the pitfalls.

[ChrisC]

Many thanks to all for comments.

I'll be putting the car back together myself, I've owned etypes for 27 years but this is my first full rebuild. I was hoping to spray it myself as i have done absolutely everything else (mechanics, welding, panel replacement, lead work etc). But sadly I dont get much time to work to the car now - so I have to bite the bullet if i am to get the car finished for the 50th anniversary. I've actually owned this one for 27 years so it means a lot to me - cant imagine ever selling it

I have the Jaguar body shop guys from Racing Green coming round on Friday to look at the car and i'll see what they say. I trust them, they have been looking after my TVR for years and their Etypes are lovely.

Racing Green are a great dealership if you own both kinds of car :o)

From conversations I like the feel of Etype UK as well but they are a little far from me to just pop round.

I'll let you guys know how it goes - at least now I am expecting bad news (financially)

[MarkE]

Good luck with Racing Green, Chris. Remember that getting the bodywork right on an E Type is a very good investment which you?ll get back if and when you sell the car. Get it wrong and it will be another eBay hopeful.

Tony, I don?t think that anybody on this forum minds answering questions and generally promoting the E Type. The answers do sometimes seem a bit scary, but it?s better to be informed and nervous than ignorant and broke!

The learning process is what it?s all about for me, and having now just about finished both Jags I?m filling my time restoring a 1962 Climax Elite. The fibreglass bodywork is fascinating, having no chassis, and I?ve just bought a Soda Blaster to remove the paint, rather than spend 150 hours or more removing it by hand. Orbital sanders don?t work on fibreglass as they tend to make big circular 9 inch holes in the body, and any other form of blasting just blows the shell to bits. If soda blasting has been about when I did my E types it would have saved a lot of time!

[ChrisC]

Well that was better than i hoped - Racing Green declared my bodywork to be "quite impressive for an amateur" - they were probably buttering me up for a huge painting bill... but at least the general comment was that i had done all the hard work - but that they would DA my applied primer back to bare metal so that they knew the initial coat was a good one...

Waiting with baited breath on the quote...

[ChrisC]

Received the quote from Racing Green and I am pleased to say that it is affordable.

Having measured the thickness of the paint on the car (which is next to none as it only has etch primer on it). The quote is based on only needing to sand the coat of etch primer off again, do all the base prep work to accept a new coat of etch primer, then apply the base coats of high build primer, sand and prepare then finish to a full glorious shine.

Looking at their other cars - I will be a happy man indeed if it comes out anywhere close to the other classic Jaguars they have done.

So no body work needed - purely the paint preparation. Sweet. This is exactly where I wanted to be after two years doing the bodywork.