'64 XKE OTS

[valley7]

Hey all,

I'm a new member and first time posting to this forum. I've done a lot of work on non British cars but I've learned quite a bit from reading threads on here and thought I would get some expert advice.

My father recently passed away from a long term illness and left behind several classic cars, one of which is a '64 XKE roadster. The last time he tried to drive it was in the late 1990's and there was an issue with the fuel pump. He was diagnosed shortly thereafter and with the exception of a few joy rides his cars have been sitting ever since.

My intent is to get the Jag driving again.

I'm planning to work on it this weekend and I would appreciate your input into what I need to look at. So far, it appears that it will require:

1. Fuel pump
2. Shifter linkage is hung up
3. Frozen pressure plate

I'm also concerned about varnish build up in the gas tank as well as checking all the oil and hydraulic fluids.

What else should I add to the list?

Thanks,
Stephen

[Heuer]

Basically anything rubber (tyres, brake hoses, coolant hoses) will have deteriorated so need checking. SNGB sell a replacement in tank pump if you have one of those. You can remove the sump at the base of the fuel tank to drain whatever is in there.

[valley7]

Thanks David, I will check that out. I read quite a few posts on the forum about fuel pumps, looks like that's maybe a theme with these cars.

I do have a few more novice questions:

1. Is the XKE positive earth?
2. How do you open the boot?
3. Is there any source of historical documents for these cars? Original build information, etc. The car is currently yellow, but it appears that it may have originally been grey.

I'll try to post a couple pictures after I go over there this weekend.

Thanks,
Stephen

[Heuer]

The 3.8's were positive earth - look for the dynamo. It may have been converted to use an alternator (-ve earth) of course. Post a photo and we can tell you
The boot is opened by pulling a handle on the rear bulkhead behind the seat back
Jaguar Heritage can supply a Heritage Certificate

Suggest you buy a Service Manual and Owners Handbook off eBay. You can use the digital copies in the Forum KB until they arrive.

[lopena]

Welcome to the Forum, Steve!

I also have a 1964 OTS and I'm located in New Jersey. If you have any specific questions or need photos please send me a message. I've owned this car for 38 years so I know a thing or two about them. I also have a spare Lucas 2FP fuel pump if you decide to keep the pump set-up original.

Good luck and welcome!

Alan
OTS #881095

[valley7]

Here's the exhaust side of the engine compartment with what I'm guessing is a dyno due to size, so positive earth (?).



I didn't attempt to put a battery in yet, but I did pull the plugs and spray Kroil in the cylinders just to make sure everything is free when I go to crank it.

With the assistance of the neighbor, the car rolled well with the clutch depressed (shifter is still stuck in gear), so that's one less thing I have to look at. The brakes are shot, so I'm adding that to the list.

What is the best way to get at the shifter / transmission linkage, do I remove the console from the top or go underneath?

Alan - thanks for the offer for pictures etc. I will definitely let you know. I'm thinking of just using a temporary external electric pump until I can figure out what I'm getting myself in to!!

Stephen

[lopena]

Stephen:

Yes, that's definitely a generator, which means your car originally came from the factory with positive ground. But do NOT assume your car is still positive-ground. I, and others, have had my generator-equipped '64 E-type rewired to be negative-ground.

Also, get yourself a color wiring diagram for a 3.8 E-type (readily available)...it'll be invaluable to you as you get to know your car.


Good luck!
Alan
NJ

[lopena]

Also, regarding the transmission: you'll need to approach it from the topside by removing the center console.

Alan

[myharris]

Just checking where your +/- battery cables end up should answer your question regarding ground ?

[lopena]

From the photo it looks like both battery cables are black (positive is usually red) so you can't really tell which one is positive or negative, unless they have some sort of marking on them (I always stamp my terminals with a + and - using a screwdriver tip).

Here's what Stephen should do: connect your new battery as positive ground. Start the car. Look at the ammeter on the dash and see if the needle is in the positive "charge" zone or the negative "discharge" zone. If it's in the positive "charge" zone all is well...you have a positive-ground car.

BTW: the main reason one would convert from positive to negative ground would be to accommodate a modern radio, which is polarity-sensitive. Everything else on an old E-type doesn't much care which direction the electrons travel in.

Alan
NJ

[valley7]

Both cables are indeed black (and no battery was left in the car), but I did not inspect closely for any markings on the terminals.

If that fails I should be able to figure it out using my Fluke and the wiring diagram. Other than the notes I have referring to a repaint and transmission rebuild (both in the early 70's), it appears to be original, so I'm thinking about 95% odds it's positive earth.

Off hand, do you guys know how the center console is removed, or should I look in the service books?

Stephen

[christopher storey]

I'm not really sure what you mean by " shifter linkage hung up". It would be very unusual, bordering on the unheard of , for the gearbox to become stuck in one gear. Does the gear lever not move in any direction at all?

However, if you want to take the console off, the procedure is

Left Hand Seat out ( at a minimum - it is often easier in the long run to take both seats out)
Carpet off both sides of transmission tunnel - just pulls out
Undo radio / ashtray console - 4 nuts , 2 on either side in the footwell at front edge of radio console
Remove radio console
Unscrew gear lever knob
Unscrew seatbelt anchorage ( if fitted ) one on either side of trans tunnel
Raise handbrake lever as far as it will go ( you may need to release the cable either at the lever or at the rear end
The console should now be capable of being lifted. It is then a matter of manouevring it partly or wholly sideways to get it off the handbrake lever. It's not an easy job, so take your time until you find the best angle to get the lever down through the slit in the console

[lopena]

Stephen:

Based on the single photo provided, your car looks incredibly original, right down to the aluminum radiator, coolant tank, generator, fluid reservoirs, etc. Please resist the temptation to "update" your car with modern components...that will only detract from its value as a "survivor" car, in my opinion. These cars are only original once, so your E-type is very valuable as-is.

[lopena]

Stephen:

One more thing: if you want to know what you car looked like when it was first assembled in 1964, head over to the "Series 1" subtopic on the forum and click on the sticky labeled "factory fit 3.8 liter". There you'll find every little detail you could possibly want about original parts, fittings, finishes, etc. It's an incredible resource.

Alan

[Heuer]

As others have pointed out the generator could have been 'flashed' to -ve earth. Only reason to do so would be a modern radio or to use the cigar lighter socket to charge a mobile phone. So when you connect it up and test as Alan suggests just don't switch on the radio! The current location of the battery cables is not a reliable guide as most owners have rotated the battery to make getting at the terminals easy. Originally the battery leads would have been a bare woven cable (earth) and black sleeved (supply) with 'helmet' connectors, the battery terminals would have been nearest the engine, hidden under the heater box.

The car does indeed look very original so try and keep it that way where possible as it will reward you with superb ride and handling. If you have to replace anything keep the original part.

[valley7]

Christopher,

It seems to be stuck in 1st gear, will not move any direction. I had the neighbor rock the car back and forth while trying to move the shifter, it wouldn't budge. This makes me think it's something other than the gearbox, but doesn't seem like there's much else. I'll take the console off and see if I can get a better idea of what's going on.

[lopena]

Stephen:

I also had my shifter get stuck in first gear (Moss gearbox). The problem was that the shifter mechanism was worn and moved past the original stopping point and got stuck there. There are some spring-loaded balls that are supposed to lock into some indents on the shift rod to stop this from happening.

I understand that this is a fairly common problem on these old Moss boxes and is not very expensive to fix. If I remember correctly the shifting mechanism can simply be lifted off the gearbox without removing the entire drivetrain.

Alan

[Heuer]

Correct, known Moss box problem. There is an excellent article on how to fix it here: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/lib ... eilly.html

Unfortunately it may mean engine/gearbox out.

[lopena]

Yep...a permanent fix to the gearbox would require an engine pull. However, if Stephen can shake the shifter loose, as described in that article, he would be able to drive the car, provided he doesn't 'over-reach' for first gear (and even if it did get stuck again a few wiggles and whacks with the palm of your hand should free it up).

For what it's worth, I drove my car with this condition for several years while I was saving my money for a full-blown restoration.

Alan

[Hugo]

As others have pointed out the generator could have been 'flashed' to -ve earth. Only reason to do so would be a modern radio or to use the cigar lighter socket to charge a mobile phone.

Or to lessen what I believe is called galvanic corrosion. For some reason that I have never understood, the downside of pos earth is that it makes the body prone to rusting. And the pos terminal will fur up.
The easy way to tell whether you have pos or neg earth is simply to look at the terminals. The pos terminal is bigger. Put a battery in the hole & the terminals will only go on one way. Doesn't matter if you get it wrong anyway (apart from the radio). If you start the engine with the battery the wrong way round, you will see the ammeter dance around like crazy while the dynamo / generator re-polarises itself. If you have a radio suppressor attached to the coil, that might prevent it running if the polarity is wrong. The coil will work either way but is much more efficient when wired the correct way.