Manual gearbox for series 2, 2+2

[Richardhealey]

Hello everyone,

As mentioned in previous posts, I am dismantling and restoring my 1969 series 2, 2+2.
It was originally fitted with an automatic gearbox, and I want to convert it to manual.
I believe there is a 4 speed with compact overdrive which will fit without modification.

So, first question if anyone is willing to help and give me their advice - I've been looking on eBay and found this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/jaguar-e-type ... Ciid%253A1

Firstly, is this the right gear box?

Secondly, are they like hen's teeth - in that if this is the right one, should I try and secure it now. I haven't even completely dismantled the car, so there's not exactly any hurry!

It was on Ebay for £1500 last week, but did not sell. Is £1250 a reasonable price too? I have heard some large numbers in overhauling both gearbox and overdrive, so advice most welcome!

many thanks,
Rich

[PeterCrespin]

Yes it's the correct one. They are rarer than they used to be but still cheaper than a five speed and all Jag. A complete overdrive refurb is about £450-500 last time I checked and the gearbox maybe £7-800?

There's also the cost of a flywheel, clutch, spigot bush and potentially a starter (try cpranking engine g/box before installing). Finally the clutch master and pedal to fit your pedal box and the slave and pipework to the clutch. All parts from a manual E or other Jag.

[christopher storey]

It is correct in the sense that it will do the job, but there are a few queries. One puzzling thing is that there is only one switch on the gearbox lid : I would expect that there would be one for the inhibitor switch ( which appears to be present) and one - where there is a brass plug further forward - for the reversing light switch. You will also need to check that the bellhousing is compatible with the 4.2 flywheel and starter arrangement - if it is a 3.8 type you will have endless problems with the starter alignment. Do not be too worried about this : it is highly likely that it came from a 4.2 litre car, but it is essential to check that beforehand

[mgcjag]

What do we think on the gearbox number....prefix of EE so think its from S1 4.2 ots or fhc but did they have tbe longer shaft for the o/d....from xkedata nearest box EE 2239 1968 1.5 ots lhd.....or would the main shaft have been changed.. Steve

[christopher storey]

Steve : I think the mainshaft must have been changed. I thought originally that it would have been from a 420 /S type /mark 2 but all of those seem to have had JV* prefixes. An EE is almost certainly originally in a SWB E type and I thought ( but am not certain ) that you could not just bolt an OD on the back of one of those , but had to change the main shaft

[Richardhealey]

Thanks gents for all the very helpful input, I think I need to find out what I can from where this gearbox came from first before making any decisions. I'll let you know if I get any meaningful response from the seller.
Cheers,
Rich

[Richardhealey]

Morning gents,
The Chappie on eBay says:

....the gearbox came from the so called series one and a half, it is a genuine e type gearbox as can be seen from the top cover position of the gear lever
the box was then fitted with a compact overdrive unit, the other plug in the top cover is for the switch so overdrive only works on topgear...

Does this move the understanding of whether it will fit along?
He didn't make any reference to the lack of reversing light switch...hmmm...
Cheers,
Rich

[mgcjag]

Hi Richard...yes looks like that gearbox number EE2222 is from a 1.5 you can check on http://www.xkedata.com as i posted above i looked there and the nearest i could find was E 2239 1968 1.5 ots lhd. E types never had overdrives fitted......and did not have the longer mainshaft at the rear so you could not fit an overdrive to one.....probably the mainshaft has been changed and possibly the gears etc to fit the o/d......some older jags had o/d as standard, some the longer o/d and some the compact A type that you need ......it does get complicated and im no expert......but what you also need if you get a different jag box and o/d is an E type top cover so the gearstick is in the correct position......if i were you i would find someone thats fitted one and talk to them to discuss it, either by phone or mail......just so u know the options.. Steve

[Heuer]

This thread may help: viewtopic.php?t=4612

Pete Crespin and MarekH are the experts in this conversion. Send MarekH a PM and see if he can advise.

[Richardhealey]

Thanks David. Have pm'd MarekH.
Many thanks!
Richard

[MarekH]

It looks fine from here.

You may or may not want to replace the brass plug in the top cover for a second switch so that it knows when it is in 4th gear. The gear ratios (with overdrive engaged substituting for the next conventional gear) are very close to the standard ratios offered so there is no obvious benefit in having overdrive available in anything other than top gear.

Since the top cover matches the gearbox body and you say it is an etype gearbox, then the gear lever will be in the right place and at the right angle to the vertical. I note that the gear lever is not from an overdrive box - it is thin like the ones from a non-overdrive box so the overdrive has been retrofitted to the box.

The remaining Jaguar parts all ought to be available from the usuals to complete the conversion. As others have pointed out, the bell housing, starter and ring gear on the flywheel all have to match each other.

You will also need to find a place to put the overdrive switch which should power a relay. The relay should have a fused feed directly from one of the thick brown wires going back to the battery as the overdrive solenoid, if it fails to engage properly, will draw ~16amps and fry your switch and your wiring in seconds. (It takes 16 amps to switch on but about 0.9amps to stay on. If, due to corrosion, the plunger operating the overdrive sticks, then it continues to draw 16amps and smoke escapes. Normally it just takes a 16amp pulse and pulls back to 0.9amps to stay engaged.)

Mine is linked to the ejector seat and operates a spare 22RA relay.
See http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_vi ... 1326286185

kind regards
Marek

[Richardhealey]

Thanks chaps for all the research and replies.
Think this is the one for me and subject to seeing have agreed £1100. Hope that's a fair price, but of course 'actual' condition is unknown, but the seller tells me all the gears looks sound and selects fine.

I love the ejector button! Must get one of those!!!

Thanks again all :-)
Rich

[Hugo]

........... so there is no obvious benefit in having overdrive available in anything other than top gear....
Marek

I have a Bristol 2 litre with o/d and no inhibitor switch so it works in all gears. 2nd o/d is a very useful gear round town as it comfortably takes you up to 30mph, so around town I can mostly just flick between 2nd direct & 2nd o/d.
Of course this means you have to be a bit gentle with the throttle in the lower gears as you will be pushing the torque limit for these units, although the Triumph TRs (uniquely I think) had o/d on 2nd 3rd and top.
They have a one-way clutch consisting of a ramped roller bearing which will maintain drive even if the cones slip.
And you have to remember to switch the o/d out when reversing!

[Richardhealey]

Yes, I had a 'J type' laycock de Normanville in my TR 6 ( only 3rd and 4th gear). It was bomb proof and very useful. I think the 'a' type overdrive was said to be less reliable, but operates on 2nd, 3rd and 4th...

[Richardhealey]

Hello everyone,
Sorry for those I missed at Stoneleigh today. Just too damn cold for this southern softy and having picked up from SNG, I ‘cold’ footed it outta there...

However, it gave me the chance to warm up in my own garage but my finishing off the last of removing the sound deadening material - the car is now fully stripped and ready for the body and paint man...

It has just occurred to me that as I have my MOD gearbox for my auto to manual conversion, I need to cut a big hole somewhere in here:




Does anyone have any photos and hopefully some dimensions too of what needs cutting out...please?!

Many thanks,
Rich

[Durango2k]

Now... let me google this for you...

http://www.mraven.com/E-type_4-speed.html

Carsten

[Richardhealey]

Thanks Carsten, I had found reference to this link in a previous post, but the link didn’t work, so thanks for that. Interesting pictures. I have also tried to contact previous owners having gone through this, such as (Malc), but they are no longer active on the forum.
I was hoping that someone might come up with some dimensions, but maybe that is too much to ask!
Cheers,
Rich

[Durango2k]

Hi Rich,

I have done this conversion, in my S1 2+2. But my car was / is a manual car, so I went this way because I wanted a longer gear set - for the german autobahn.

Out with the E-Type gearbox, in with the one I got from Pete about 8 yrs ago (IIRC it´s a late S-Type 3.8 one), and I had to overhaul the MOD in between, using parts from ODSpares.

All I can say is that on Manual cars, the tunnel the factory put in is waaay smaller then the tunnel you seem to have- I remember discussing this with Jos Raven and others.

I had to weld some extensions on the side walls of the tunnel, the rest was straightforward, except my car did not have a suspension spring and it was a bit of a caboodle to recognize this fact, and understand the spring I thought which would fit was indeed way too small.

Carsten

[Lost Horizon]

Here is my engine / tranny as it came out of the car for zeroing (late 1970 OTS). It's numbers matching, so original. If you want other pics, I have some.

[Richardhealey]

Hi Dana,
Thanks for taking the time to contribute to my question.
I have the MOD gearbox, it’s the dimensions for the alterations to the gearbox tunnel, to convert from automatic to manual which I need and I guess you will not have been through this process (pain!).
Cheers,
Rich