Cheap for an OTS?

[PeterCrespin]

I agree that it doesn't translate to a race car, but... the forums at the time were full of exactly this sort of discussion, with many condemning the rally car as a 'fake'.

Folks can be very fickle.

Funny that it doesn't quite apply to Nigel Webb's Hawthorn Le Mans-winning D-type, amongst others. That car was chopped about as suspension and engine hack almost immediately and last recorded as used fin 1958 or tyre tests by the factory. According to Andrew Whyte, who was the meticulous factory archive/PR man, the car never left the factory intact - it's dismembered parts being used to repair other cars. A new body was made around some of the bits and even by 1983 when he wrote his book, Whyte says there was more than one copy extant of that car and the 1957 winner.

Still, it's a nice car with its own history now and probably nobody else can better the claim, but Mike Hawthorn's car? I think not.

[SEJohnson95]

Not Theseus and his ship again....

[christopher storey]

re Theseus : I don't think we're all that long on philosophy on this board ( except Peter Crespin of course ) . in any event, I prefer to call it Queen Anne's Axe ( 5 new heads and 4 new handles ) which most of my cars seem to resemble

[Moeregaard]

Or as someone once told me, "a new car parked under an old radiator cap..."

[SEJohnson95]

I suppose once it's all restored it doesn't make much difference given most body panels have been replaced, but I'd rather have the original engine, 'box, running gear etc. Out of curiosity I visited a well-known E-type restoration company near me and saw this gorgeous gunmetal/red outside bonnet lock LHD roadster, original engine, 'box, running gear the lot, but it had a new shell (granted hood frames were original!) Is it the same car? I'd like to think it is, but that debate would rage on forever. The crime for me is that somewhere in a scrapyard is the remains of that car. Surely SOMETHING could have been saved?

[neil4444]

It's easy to be precious about these things but it boils down to simple economics & common sense for me.
In terms of the bodywork I preserved what I could - In my case just the bulkhead. Not out of some romantic idea that I was keeping the car alive but out of the need to contain costs. It saved ?5k+
Then to other areas of the car. Some panels shot. Some panels okay. Do I spend more money on carefully detaching & cleaning up the okay bits as best as possible than it would cost for new replacement parts ? All this in the knowledge that the old panels or joins between old & new may start to decay before the new panels ? I tried, but simple economics (again) & common sense prevailed - I only want restore this car once in my lifetime (although I'd start another tomorrow - any S1 FHC projects out there?).
All other key components (except gearbox which I replaced with ETF 5-speed) are original.
When I (eventually) sit in my heavily restored car (a light restoration was not an option), I will not give a monkeys of how much original metal is hidden under the paint. I'll be too busy grinning (grin factor = 11/10). It's only a car, I rescued it and its my car built for me.
And best of all. She'll be ready to come home by end of this week :)

PS. She's got a new radiator cap !

[SEJohnson95]

That's what I mean Neil, once she's sitting there gleaming on the driveway it doesn't really matter

[Tony]

If I we're to buy a Robey shell and fit it out with an old E type engine from here and an old E type gear box from there etc, would it be an E Type or a kit car? I would imagine it would be a kit car as you would not have the manufacturers plate. If I were to buy a total wreck of an E Type and end up replacing most if not all of the panel etc, then I would say it is an E Type as you have taken and old E type and restored it regardless if the engine or gearbox has been replaced sometime in the past. I suppose the original manufacturers plate is the key and the fact the parts were from an original E type. The more you think about it the more confusing it gets. All I know is if you have owned a kit car ( and I have) you are always aware it is a kit car even if it looks , feels and drives like the original.

To take Christophers point, if started out as the original axe and parts were replaced over time, it is still the same axe until you throw it away and buy a new one. ( I think !!!)

[Heuer]

An E-Type is surely more than the sum of its parts.

[Tony]

True

[ernie]

If a car has been rebuilt using extensive replacement panels and bodywork and if non original but oem parts fitted eg replacement but correct spec engine gearbox...etc ...then it is still an e type if the original chassis/ body number retained....after all the car started in bits at the factory and most cars have had parts replaced over the years.....it is not a kit car as the car keeps the original spec ...if someone is rebuilding a car to drive ...that's it...after all racing classic cars are completely rebuilt many times in their lives and no one questions their originality just their provenance......
HMO anyway.... :D

[vikla]

Further to the discussions earlier in this thread about age, provenance, matching numbers, etc, affecting prices, how about the car detailed in this auction sale - 1962 OTS for ?35 to ?45K ......
http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/jagu ... r-series-1

Have the auction house got it wrong and the car is really worth ?70-?90K...

[MarkE]

I'm sure that is just a teaser price and the car will fetch a lot more. It does tick every non-original box though!

Probably a great car to buy and have fun with, and even leave in the pub car park without fretting about it being damaged.

It is a very strange way of advertising a car, in effect claiming how un-appealing the car is. I think that the seller must have upset the auctioneer somehow. Or it's a kind of double negative appealing to the VW Beetle buyer from the 1960s...remember when VW advertised the Beetle as 'Ugly, slow, noisy and expensive'?

[Tony]

I suppose under my thoughts this could be considered an E type and not a kit car as it is based on an original E type and has the plate to support it. Would this car be a candidate for a heritage certificate?

As they say not for the purist. For the price (assuming it goes for that price) you would have all the enjoyment of the E Type and assuming you get a heritage certificate would be justified in claiming it to be so.

[tinworm]

The green roadster at Silverstone has the heritage document with all numbers listed - it has an engine and gearbox from another car (or cars).

regards Barrie

[paydase]

The green roadster at Silverstone has the heritage document with all numbers listed - it has an engine and gearbox from another car (or cars).

regards Barrie

Then it means that you can change whatever you want in the car provided you keep the shell and the plate!

What should also be the value of an E-Type sold as "matching numbers" for which the engine and gearbox have been changed/upgraded during a full rebuild, while the original engine/gearbox, possibly damaged, are kept as collectibles (in case!) but will never be mounted back?

[Heuer]

You can change whatever you want as long as you have the ID plate hence Robey and others sell complete body shells.