Barn Find

[Malk]

Anyone else been following this story?? How much?! That surely will be ?200k+ vehicle. Anyone know who purchased it?

http://www.classicandsportscar.com/news ... _article_1

[mystery type]

estimated to make just ?20-30,000

someones out of touch

[Malk]

In all fairness would ANYONE on here have guessed ?109k though?! Perhaps ?50-60k. Be a nice peice for the mag to follow that restoration...... Doubt its staying in the UK though.

[Heuer]

We talked about it here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4358

I think this is brilliant news for all owners because it has received a lot of press in the national newspapers and will push values further upwards. Incidentally Harry has just bought one a couple of chassis numbers earlier than this and although it needs some work it is a runner.

[V12 Epyte]

I was at the auction on Monday, it was bought by a couple seated just in front of us, I think they were probably private buyers.
The first bid was ?30,000 it then went up rapidly in ?10,000 pound jumps,
hammer price was ?96,000 if I remember correctly.
They stood up afterwards, the woman looked at us and said
"Thats blown the shoe budget then"

[PeterCrespin]

I think this is brilliant news for all owners because it has received a lot of press in the national newspapers and will push values further upwards.

Be careful what you wish for David.

If the story of Vincents and countless other aspirational classics is anything to go by, sky-high prices kill the hobby and eventually suppliers, as the vehicles cease to be worn out regularly and spares turnover plummets. Which leaves auctioneers and a few dealers creaming it whilst the great unwashed can do little more than put their noses up against the glass mausoleum showrooms and museums the cars look out from.

I want lots of other people to be as lucky as I have been. I want to be able to get in and out of E-types without being left behind because I can't afford to buy replacements. When the flow of new entrants is cut off, the growth withers from below. Yes, there are far more E-types than Vincents, Astons etc. so the demand for spares won't drop precipitously, but the principle holds good. High prices benefit the few - including me - and hurt the many (my future buyers). King Midas got into trouble remember.

Pete

[Malk]

And I guess logically it will also affect the spares lines, auto jumble, club days, club rides as these 'mega' buyers won't wish to participate but have a car totally restored by someone else and have it in a fancy car showroom on their estates rather than use them like 80% of owners do regularly. We all take great enjoyment in sharing the cars, let a kid sit in mine at a petrol station couple of weeks ago (although secretly I wanted to sit in the GT40 infront of me!!!) And it made his day - cost me nothing.

Its the passion element that will be lost - that's what will kill the interest.

M.

[Simon P]

Here's the story of who bought it and what's happening next:

Once again at auction, it was a ?109k restoration project that wrote the headlines at the Bonhams spring sale in London. Caught on camera, as the sleeper blinked in the daylight after the garage doors had been finally opened, the 1961 ?Flat Floor? Roadster with external bonnet release catches had been in current ownership since 1965, but inactive for 30 years.

One of the earliest surviving right-hand drive cars from the first few weeks of production, ?564 DFJ? certainly pulled big time, attracting eight telephone bidders, but was eventually won by Chris Anderson in the saleroom. Fittingly, the private enthusiast had made both the first bid of ?40,000 and, crucially, the final ?90,000 clincher, which cost him ?109,020 with premium. The very next day his dusty acquisition had been transported to restorers CMC at Bridgnorth for the fullest revival.

(From: http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/new ... dson-evans)

[Heuer]

Pete

Raises an interesting point that has been on my mind of late. Will we see depreciation in fully restored E-Types?

I guess the 'on the road' cost of this early chassis car is going to be in the order of ?250,000 but will it see an immediate drop in value as soon as it is driven away from CMC? Newly (and professionally) restored OTS's are, of necessity, offered at prices of ?150,000 and upwards yet 'older restorations' can be found at half that price. In other words are these as new E-Types suffering the same sort of depreciation (or worse) seen in modern cars?

[MarkE]

There's always going to be a top few percent of exceptional cars which seem to fetch the eye-watering prices. The earliest, the most original, the last of the line, the owned by some celeb and the perfect restored condition.

I don't think that any classic has ever been worth the restoration cost plus purchase cost, and it will inevitably drop as it gets used because it won't be 100% perfect anymore. But I can't see it dropping like a new car, which after 10 years is pretty well spent. Well, maybe if you take your perfect Eagle E Type out 15,000 miles a year, summer and winter, after 10 years it wouldn't be worth much, but most of us don't use the cars that way.

I don't think there's too much risk in all E Types reaching 6 figure plus sums either, as the cars as a whole are in such different conditions, models, state of originality and desirability. The range at the moment if someone asks what an E Type is worth is something between ?10k and ?150k, depending on......lots of things.

Will very expensive top-end cars pull the values of lesser cars up? Probably, a bit.

But surely with 10s of thousands of the cars remaining, supply will keep up with demand for quite a while, and the parts / restoration companies will have plenty to do for the next 10, 20 or even 30 years.

Beyond that sort of timeframe then petrol runs out, and all the old classics will be turned into large mantelpiece ornaments! Values will change substantially then!!

[mystery type]

Will very expensive top-end cars pull the values of lesser cars up? Probably, a bit.

If you desire something and the relatively low cost makes it obtainable, your thirst is easily quenched.
however if the cost is at at point where your desire is beyond your financial reach, then that desire increases.

Its this desire that dictates e type prices, and cars fetching ?109k at auction, will only increase public desirability.

Its a shame that car was unused and unloved for 30 years, once restored, i fear its about to spend another 30 yrs of not being used and enjoyed as intended.

[Mark Gordon]

I'm still scratching my head over this one. I understand that this is a relatively rare car, being an unrestored early flat floor model in apparently decent restorable condition. The fact that it commanded such a hugh sum and then was immediately turned over to CMC who, if given the green light, will restore it to immaculate concours condition for another hugh sum of money is what confuses me. The relative rarity of this car could only be retained by a minimal reworking, replacing perished seals, rubber, etc. and making it mechanically sound, but leaving the original bits where possible and not disturbing it's well-earned patina. Could not the immaculate concours restoration have been accomplished just as well by starting with more of a basket case that started out in unserviceable condition? How much of this original, untouched car will remain when CMC are finished? Just asking.

[ChrisC]

It does seem a bit daft doesnt it... unless CMC are not going to do a full concours (fingers crossed for originality being kept)

[Heuer]

I understand the car is pretty far gone. It was left outside for the first five years of its layup before it was put into a garage where the lack of ventilation allowed the absorbed water to do its work.

[MarkE]

If that's the case David then the CMC approach will be to strip it down to a bare shell, cut the floor, transmision tunnel and sills out to leave the shell in two main parts, attach those to the jig, continue to cut out any rust / damaged panels ..... then start to add new metal.

Another 'original RHD' car with flat floors from Mr Robey. CMC do make most of their own outer panels now, so they do look right! But if all that is needed, the buying price is a complete nonsense.

[daykrolik]

I concur with the previous comments. Elsewhere I've written about the "barn find" phenomenon where a car that has been abandoned and neglected is worth more than a car that has been regularly maintained in good running condition, largely as original, and regularly driven.
I'm sure we like to see the value of our E Types appreciating.
When I was a boy, my best friend's father owned an original SJ Duesenberg, which he brought off a used car lot in 1948 for $2000. He drove it regularly. In the 1960s, when it was worth as much as his house, and he became uncomfortable driving it, he sold it to pay college tuition. I think he always regretted it.
At least in my part of the world, I see far too few E Types on the road. There should be a balance between nice drivers and show examples. Lately, I see the balance swinging toward ultra?restored "trailer queens" bought and sold as investments.
."

[Malk]

These cars need driving, mines been used 3 times yesterday for various journeys - running kids around and then over to freinds in eve. I just don't see the point in owning a car and not using it - I didn't want a concours car for that reason so it could be used. Mechanically I'll spend whatever is needed so it fires up on first turn and goes well, I am a 'petrol head' love cars both modern and classic and owned a diverse range over 25 years motoring. I just don't get a buzz anymore out of going to museums and seeing the cars lined up knowing they are never used and just 'Caged up'

Goodwood revival is the moving museum I can entrance my son in what motoring was realing about not a car museum and I personally think its a shame. These cars have a soul and it needs letting out........

[PeterCrespin]

I just don't see the point in owning a car and not using it - I didn't want a concours car for that reason so it could be used. Mechanically I'll spend whatever is needed so it fires up on first turn and goes well...

I personally think its a shame. These cars have a soul and it needs letting out........

Bravo! Give this man a gallon of V-power for his V12. The higher the price of the cars the less (and by fewer) they will be driven and seen out on the roads to brighten people's day. Would you hang a Picasso on the fridge next to your kid's fuzzy scribble? Would your insurer even let you have it at home on display? It's a pity when things become too precious to use normally and end up as victims of their own value - ceasing to give pleasure in the way their creators intended.

Imagine if a Series 2 automatic 2+2 was the only E-type you could risk on the streets? (Flame suit on!) :-)

[MarkE]

But if everybody thought like this, all our cars would have done astronmical mileage, more would have been written off, and there would be no delicious barn finds to uncover! Both of my E Types had been layed up when they were around 8 years old, and kept undercover in a warm dry place in Los Angeles for 25 to 30 years.

I am now enjoying a couple of cars that have done 35k and 55k miles, that haven't been welded since they left Coventry and have never had an accident.

So I would say to at least half the owners of classic cars.....give them a good clean, change all the fluids and put them in a Carcoon for the next 30 years, so that folks like me can come along later and really enjoy a time warp car. Don't be so selfish as to use it yourself!!

Mind you I don't go shopping in my Jags, or leave them down the pub. They get used about 2000 miles each per year currently, which is rather pathetic but I do have other oldies. One of the most fun of the lot is a Mini Moke, which really does prove that a car doesn't have to cost a lot to be a fun drive.

[Heuer]

Or have any weather protection or other luxuries!