Sunroof removal from 1973

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Rustyred
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#1 Sunroof removal from 1973

Post by Rustyred » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:29 am

Hi all,

I live on south coast NSW, Australia.

I'm restoring a 1973. I have no idea how to pull out the factory sunroof. Is there already a link or is there some photos on the forum. I can't find any through the search.

Any help would be appreciated

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vee12eman
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#2

Post by vee12eman » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:27 am

Hi,
I removed my 1971 roof some time ago, so I can't remember exactly how to do it. However, you will have to remove the headlining to gain access to some of the screws. The frame is ash and held in by steel screws, most of which sheared when I removed them; requiring some inventive woodwork repair. I took no photos sadly.

The rear bar also screws in, as do the side channels. I think from memory you must pull the headlining down to gain access to the first screws and if your headlining is good this is a difficult decision as damage is likely.
I'll try to remember more.

However, you can remove the material leaving the frame in place, I remember this because I refitted it prior to Peter Harvey (acknowledged UK based Webasto sunroof expert) travelled from Kent to Buckinghamshire (prior to my coming to Aus) to fit the roof.

Try to contact Peter his contact details were to call or email on +44 1304 614412 or peterharveysunroofs@tiscali.co.uk - I think these details are still correct although he may have stopped restoring roofs now as he is (I believe) well past retirement age. He is a true gent though and may be willing to advise you.

Regards,

Simon.
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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PeterCrespin
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#3 Re: Sunroof removal from 1973

Post by PeterCrespin » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:20 pm

Rustyred wrote:Hi all,

I live on south coast NSW, Australia.

I'm restoring a 1973. I have no idea how to pull out the factory sunroof. Is there already a link or is there some photos on the forum. I can't find any through the search.

Any help would be appreciated
It's not a factory sunroof, in case that's of interest. No such thing except a tiny number of special order steel ones, allegedly.

Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#4

Post by vee12eman » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:14 pm

Hi,

I have come across a steel (supposedly) factory sunroof on an S3 and as far as I know the Tudor Webasto roofs were factory approved dealer options, although this is hard to prove/disprove. I am fairly certain my car had it from new and that it was fitted by the John Coombs dealership as my car was their second (I believe) demonstrator, with the BUY 1 plates and I guess they fitted the roof to make anotherwise "ordinary" S3 stand out. The car was red (weren't they all :D ), with painted steel wheels and Auto - not the most appealing combination for a demo car so I think they just took the only car available to them after selling their first demo car very quickly. The first car (allegedly) was advertised a few years ago and had an even earlier chassis number than mine, which was built in the first month of production (January) but not registered until April 1st.

Regards,

Simon.
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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#5

Post by PeterCrespin » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:51 pm

I've got no problem at all with anything and everything being fitted from new by dealers to clinch a sale or to special customer order. There's a world of difference between factory-approved stuff and things the factory fitted as part of production...
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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Rustyred
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#6

Post by Rustyred » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:18 pm

Many Thanks to those who have replied,

To clarify, on the sunroof.
I only assumed it was a factory sunroof as the fitment doesn't look aftermarket The roof itself is all steel and retracts into a boxed housing. With electric motor drive, and when I found out yesterday after pulling the hood lining off, there is a manual over ride, which the motor trimmers covered.
I have worked out how to remove the steel roof section and the cradle it sits on, but I can't work out how to remove the box. It has only 4 brackets attached to the roof, but they are only on the rear and middle sections of the box itself, its has a seal that seats against the roof on the rear side but the opening appears to be welded to the roof.
I need to remove this unit to repair rust on the upper part of the roof and rust in the rear corners where the drain tubes are.
Image
Image

Any assistance would greatly be appreciated.

Cheers John

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#7

Post by vee12eman » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:11 am

Hi John,

Unfortunately I can't help you with the steel sun roof, which, as Pete says may actually be a factory fit (I don't think it is in the manual though). If the opening really is welded to the roof then you may have to cut into it, repair, then re-weld. I hope it is easier than that. If it is a factory fit roof, very few people will have encountered one and if it isn't then you are even less likely to find help as aftermarket additions are even rarer. I wish you good luck though.

One thing, is it possible the roof was partially glued in place? Jaguar were already glueing the bonnets so there is a posibility. If so a sharp blade might do it and you can glue if back on with Sikaflex 221 - available in Bunnings.

Pete, I wasn't trying to claim my roof was factory fit and I agree factory approved is different (hence my original qualification). Interestingly, the only other car I have come across with a steel sunroof was also in Australia, perhaps that's where many of the factory fit cars ended up? From Johns' description it does sound factory fit, surely they wouldn't weld a box on after painting?

Regards,

Simon
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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#8

Post by PeterCrespin » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:58 am

Yes, I think we're all agreed. I'd be tempted to claim 'great minds think alike' but since non of us actually knows anything much about the roof we'll have to settlefor 'fools seldom differ' :-)

The manual override was common at the time and my bet is a winding crank from an XJ would fit. But as to the fundamentals, essentially we're dealing with a coachbuilt installation - regardless of who by - and all bets are off. It just needs to be tackled from first principles and sounds like bad metal will need to be cut out or the assembly deconstructed by severing 'permanent' attachments. What man has made, man can make again etc.

My only comment would be to take great car with doing any welding since warpage shows up easily on roof panels.

Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#9

Post by Rustyred » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:51 pm

Thanks Simon and Peter for you input.

Well I had another crack this afternoon. Loosened all the bolts off and had flex at the rear of the frame box, where the seal is located, but the front section is amazingly tight and with a fine blade scrapper you still can't get under the lip edge to even pry down, the main roof panel is moving. I was hoping it was maybe glued as Simon mentioned.

If the roof was made by a coachbuilder, he should of been the one to fabricate the car cause it is a fantastic job of that roof.
It would be interesting to find out what brand or maker of the roof is, just for seeking parts and seal replacement.
I will post more detailed photos tomorrow for those whom are interested.

I was really hoping to remove this section as I was wanting to get the body immersion dipped, and the acid used eats everything rubber as well as making it easier for me to repair the rust.

Cheers John

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#10

Post by Rustyred » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:01 pm

PeterCrespin wrote:
It just needs to be tackled from first principles and sounds like bad metal will need to be cut out or the assembly deconstructed by severing 'permanent' attachments. What man has made, man can make again etc.

My only comment would be to take great car with doing any welding since warpage shows up easily on roof panels.
Hi Peter

Yes I know, that's exactly what I didn't want to do, cause man did make it in the 1st place his skill is far superior to mine so cutting it out is a no brainer.
I definitely don't fancy any warpage on an otherwise perfect roof, the work involved in repairing the rusted section would be a lot easier to tackle, I just didn't want to have a seal issue when welding the roof or the corner of the drain section as trying to reseal this area again successfully would be a difficult task.

Cheers John

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#11

Post by MarkE » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:08 pm

Rustyred wrote:
I was really hoping to remove this section as I was wanting to get the body immersion dipped, and the acid used eats everything rubber as well as making it easier for me to repair the rust.

Cheers John
John
Have a look at this topic before getting the car dipped:

http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... cid+dipped

I've seen a couple of stunning restorations each turn into a peeling mess a few months after the paintwork was completed, due to trapped 'strippers' leaching out. Worse, there doesn't seem to be much you can do about it when it does go wrong.

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Colin
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#12

Post by Colin » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:37 pm

Hi Rustyred

This information may be too late for you but I have a little information regarding the metal sunroofs which may or may not be correct. Try speaking to Don Lewis who has a site http://www.etypejaguar.ozcarnut.com - his email is getdon@ozcarnut.com. He restored a Series 3 some years ago and I believe his car had a metal sunroof. I have a 1973 series 3 with a metal "Hollandia" sunroof which has just been removed by others for spraying etc but that is only the lid and nothing else. I dont think this was a factory fit but was probably sent by the dealer for a retrofit. As far as I can make out the "Hollandia" roofs were originally imported solely by a company in Clapham UK (This assumes yours is a Hollandia) My roof also had a ratchet to override the electric motor but I had a pull down in the head lining which gave access for the ratchet.

I understand that Webasto took over Hollandia. I have since found that this company that originally imported the roofs is still operating in Brighton Sussex UK and their website is http://www.thetrimmingcentre.co.uk. The son of the original owner is still there and his name is Steve Camp Tel/ Fax 01273 325256. I intend to take my car there once it is back on the road to have the motor overhauled and he said that he could still obtain some parts for the Hollandia should you need any.

Hope this helps

Colin
V12 Series III 2+2 1973

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