Series1 2+2 exhaust fitting - update to the tale

[Spark]

Hi
Purchased a complete exhaust to fit to my car
Come to fit and can I heck get it to line up, I have attached some pictures to help explain
The down pipes simply don’t line up sufficiently to attach the silencer boxes.
Look like the bends are not sufficient to align, if I do twist the flexi joints to get close to align up the pipes then touch the chassis rail
Plus the rear hanging clamp is too wide by some way and completely distorts the hangers. This is also a concern but it’s more about the pipe to silencer fit at the moment
Don’t know what the solution is, have emailed the manufacturers to ask

Has anyone experienced this before and managed to fix
The down pipes are fitted to std cast manifolds

Thanks
Phil

[mystery type]

Hi Phil, Have you still got the old exhaust to compare it with?
Is it the correct exhaust?
The S1 2+2 is a different setup as the manifold pipes go into 1 pipe so as to clear the optional automatic box.
The down pipes from the manifold do Restrict the range because as you state, they need to clear the rails.
All I can suggest is to initially leave EVERY joint/fixing point loose as possible so as to give maximum play so you can move the pipes where you want them to go.

[mgcjag]

Hi Phil....I see its a Bell system...is it from SNGB....last year a guy from the US was haveing the same problem as you on his 2+2.....SNGB asked if they could trial fit a complete exhaust to my 2+2....I removed mine and within 40mins i had the complete new system on and connected up to the original manifolds.......I assume you are trying to fit this all loose prior to clamping anything tight.....This i think was the problem someone else had and nothing would line up becaus they started from the front and tightened the fittings.......When we fitted this the stainless brackets were not a goog fit and if they were used betweed the silencers they would sit too far apart....SNGB were going to reengineer the brackets.....they are too thick for you to be able to shape yourself.......my original brackes wer a perfect fit........so my advice....dont fit the brackets....position the whole exhaust.....re use your silencer brackets or check to see it SNGB have modified theirs....finally if you are useing the stainless pipe clamps they need a lot of tightening .....Steve

[chrisfell]

I bought a Bell system years ago. The fit was awful. Biggest issue was that the ends of the main boxes were the same size as the pipes under the rear cage, one wouldn’t go into the other. I purchased some connecting pipes on eBay to make it all fit.

At the front end of the system I had to leave everything loose from the manifolds. Once the system was loosely assembled I pushed and pulled the downpipes so that they didn’t clatter against the torsion bar. I supported the siamesed section and main boxes to ensure they were as high under the flor as possible. Then I tightened everything up.

[angelw]

Steve Wrote:

When we fitted this the stainless brackets were not a goog fit and if they were used betweed the silencers they would sit too far apart....SNGB were going to reengineer the brackets.....they are too thick for you to be able to shape yourself.

Hello Steve,
As of a month ago, the stainless brackets are still the very poor fit. Its a pity if the part is known to be wrong that they are still being sold,

Generally, Bell systems are very good quality. But I've had examples that would indicate that they are not all created equal. I've had a few for S1/S2 2+2 cars, where the down pipes run so close to the Reaction Plate that they hit when the right conditions on the road prevail (frequently). There was no scope to positioning them further away from the Reaction Plate; where they were was as far away as they could possibly be placed. The resolve was to re-profile the bends in the Down Pipes. Like having a dog and having to bark for it, when you have to modify a high ticket item where the reasonable expectation is that it should fit.

Regards,

Bill

[Thor]

Do the down pipes not rotate at the flanges connection?

[Tom W]

It’s difficult to tell from the photos, but do you still have the split pin in the rear gearbox mount? That shouldn’t be fitted, it’s only there as an assembly aid. It might be holding the end of the gearbox down and with it, the engine and downpipes.

[Spark]

Hi all
Thanks for the comments and suggestions all very helpfull
No reply from the manufacturers yet( probably understandable in the current times)
My only next step is to loosen further the clamps to the manifolds however I still don’t think this will give me much movement as the down pipes are very close to the reaction plate

I did order some new silencer brackets from SNG which are a much better fit but still they are tight and the rear one I believe should be narrower then the front is this correct, however I can fettle this later.

I’m still not convinced that the exhaust will fit comfortably and neatly. I don’t want constant banging and heat on the underside
An expensive suggestion from another forum is a new Pair of tubular manifolds without Siamese joint made longer to fit the2+2 but that’s last resort and why when I have shelled out good money for an exhaust that doesn’t fit correctly.

Let’s see if having everything completely slack makes a difference

Thanks again
Phil

[mgcjag]

Hi Phil......you need to completely remove the brackets joining the silencers.....just support silencers from below on a couple of pieces of timber.....loosly fit downpipes to manifold then silencers to downpipes if tney are the same as the ones i trial fitted there should then be plenty of movement.....PM sent....Steve

[mgcjag]

Just to add...the chassis rails that run either side of the silencers are not parallel....they are wider at front than rear so cant remember exactly if its the front rear brackets that are different sizes or if the hanging strap supports that are different....Parts catalogue should show difference (Jaguar one)....Steve

[tim wood]

On my previous car (a2+2) I had a pair of manifolds made specially by e type fabs. They were longer than the normal swb items. No Siamese merging of the pipes.

Apologies if that’s not really helpful but the system fitted perfectly.

Tim

[Thor]

It all boils down to how much do you want to spend however that does not excuse the poor quality that seems to be the norm.

[Spark]

Update
So after an eventual response from Bell email asking who I purchased the exhaust from and can I send it back to Huston’s who will send it to SNG and then bell will collect it and will check it against the pattern, no mention of the clamps, and Email from SNG ref the clamps saying they know about it and are looking at it, I have supplied pictures directly of the two sets I have to them yet nothing to up date as of yet?
So take things into your own hands as I want the car on the road not wait for answers to parts that don’t fit that should
Purchased new set of downpipes from H & S which fit perfectly and with some fettleing of the clamps and hangers I now have the downpipes and front silencers fitting nicely however at my cost and with no offer of suggestions of a solution from suppliers just we’re looking at it but with covid ( I get this but something would be better than a blank nothing as it was some weeks ago) and were all in tricky times but any update or offer of help is better than nothing, by the way this forum has been a great help and I appreciate all the suggestions.

So part 2!!!!!

So imagine my absolute horror when I come to fit the rear tailpipes and hanger
Pictures speak for themselves who’s at fault here again. I don’t know?
It’s beyond belief that it doesn’t fit!!!!!! Arrrrghhh

Why don’t parts fit?? Correctly

I am correct in thinking the hanger goes on the top of the pipes and interestingly I still have my old ones and guess what it fits the old ones so can only assume the pipes are incorrect unless someone tells me different that the exhaust welded brackets have been upgraded or made larger for strength and I have an old stock hanger which should be wider. I just don’t know?

Even with some easing the hanger looks ridiculous with sides splayed out so that not the answer, do I have to make my own parts and my time etc etc etc
Comparison against the original silencer in pics

Feedback Would be welcome from suppliers please as this has been an absolute nightmare and wasted use of my time and money

Feeling very disgruntled And out of pocket just to fit an exhaust.

Call to suppliers tomorrow will be interesting but I don’t expect any updates as I’m sure they would have been in touch had they sorted the issues? So I’m left hanging

[mgcjag]

Hi...my rear hanger isnt a channel section...dont know if its original but it fit..and i have the Bell system..I would just trim yours to fit......Steve

[Spark]

Probably the answer but will need to strengthen a little plates no very thick
Cheers

[mgcjag]

Just trim off one edge

[mystery type]

. So I’m left hanging

You wish

[angelw]

Hello Spark,
Although the quality of the Bell Exhaust Systems seems quite good, the mounting systems are just rubbish. Or. at least the interface between the two is rubbish.

With regards to the mounting straps for the forward mufflers (2+2 cars), they have been and remain an atrocious fit as delivered. Not only do they not fit the profile of the mufflers, the set designated for the rear mount really doesn't fit between the Chassis Rail Brackets. I note from the SNGB website, that the set for the Forward Mount is No Longer Available, but the set for the Rear is. As the distance between the Chassis Rails diminishes from front to rear, the difference in the distance between the rails at the two points where the Muffler Brackets attach is 10mm. Accordingly, the sets of Muffler Straps for the Front and Rear of the Mufflers are different and this is indicated by different part numbers and that one set (the front set) is no longer available. Interestingly, the Muffler Straps that are deemed as Rear Mount Straps actually fit at the front, once their profile has been coaxed into fitting the profile of the Mufflers, and remain a rubbish fit at the rear unless you take a 10mm section out of the centre area of the straps. It would be a better proposition for SNGB to list the Straps for the Rear to be No Longer Available and market the existing Rear Straps as Front units. At least they would be only a rubbish fit to the Muffler profile, but would be a reasonable fit between the Chassis Brackets. To tighten the bolts of the Muffler Straps will without doubt, damage the profile of the Mufflers if the profile of the Straps is not made to match that of the Mufflers.

The following pictures are of the Rear Resonator mount, the same as yours. The Resonators have a different part number than yours, this is because they're for a Series 2 2+2. but the mounting is exactly like yours.

The Concave surface of the Resonator Mounting Bracket saddle should fit on top of the Resonator Bracket Weldments. I've gleaned this from seeing first hand a number of original, very low mileage cars, that clearly still had their original exhaust systems and also from books dealing with originality issues.

Like you, I've found that the Mounting Brackets supplied have no hope of fitting on top of the Resonator Weldments. You will see, however, that with the example shown in the following pictures, the Mounting Bracket Saddle would fit on the open underside of the Weldment. I note in one of your pictures, that the Mounting Bracket Saddle won't fit into the underside of the Weldment.

Quality control of the fit of parts for fabrication (the component parts of the Exhaust System and Mount Brackets being examples) is rather simple, as generally the tolerance for fit is quite large. You simply employ a tolerance system that won't allow an interference fit to occur. QC by these manufacturers must be just about nonexistent

Regards,

Bill

[Spark]

Hi
I completely concur with your comments and findings
It’s awful and yes SNG have it wrong as the front bracket is ok and it’s the rear that doesn’t fit,

As for the rear mount that’s just a waste of time and money and itS back to having to fabricate a poor fitting part yourself to fit as neither seems to want to take ownership which is disappointing

Well onwards and don’t worry as we all have money and time to spare for poor parts

Thanks
Phil

[angelw]

Hello Phil,
I'd give SNGB a chance to respond. Typically they're interested in resolving issues and yours may have got lost in the noise of COVID. Perhaps contact then again to remind them of the issue.

I don't know who makes the Mounting System; I suspected it was Bell. The Resonator Bracket System is adequate in quality, just the wrong size for the Resonator Weldments to fit on top as they did originally. The example shown in the pictures attached to my previous Post has the Weldment of one Resonator, narrower than the other. The saddle of the Mountimg Bracket fits easily into the open side of the Weldment of one Resonator and is very tight in the other; this clearly is a Bell issue.

The Muffler Strap assembly is another issue altogether. They are just incredibly poorly made and as supplied, have Zero chance of fitting the profile of the Mufflers. If a "one size fits all" strategy, is being employed (with the Front set No Longer Available), it would be better for the manufacturer of this part to make a set of Straps actually fit between the Chassis Brackets for the Rear Strap set and supply spacers to make them compatible with the Front Brackets. In actual fact, spacers may not be required, because the error would only be 5mm per side, but spacers would have both sets of Straps fit similarly. The biggest issue is the poor match of the profile of the Mufflers and that of the Straps.

I'm fortunate in that I have a well equipped CNC workshop, but its galling purchasing product and then having to modify, sometime make anew, a component to have it fit.

Regards,

Bill