Can anyone tell me where to stick this?

skiday · Post by **skiday** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:30 am

I have this part, which I assume is a solenoid, but I have no photographic record of it. There seems to be no corresponding holes for it, or bracket. I suppose it could have crept into the stock of parts from somewhere else feasibly.

The nearest to it in SC Parts diagrams is this;

but mine looks to have twice the connections and I don't have a bracket for it.

Also, you can see in the diagram the bracket for the coil, but it only has one mounting point whereas the coil's bracket needs two. There is a bracket for a relay, it may be how it was, but it all looks wrong. Any comments?

If anyone has photos of the areas involved that would be great.

Thanks

Andrew

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:34 am

Don't tempt me !

vipergts · Post by **vipergts** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:08 am

I dont ever recall seeing a solenoid like that anywhere near the coil

Post by **1954Etype** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:35 pm

vipergts wrote:I dont ever recall seeing a solenoid like that anywhere near the coil

Used on the 3.8 cars as a starter. Doesn't go anywhere near the coil (that is just to show the part). IIRC, it goes on the round diagonal frame near to the battery. Don't have one one the 4.2 (or, I think, the later 3.8s).

Dave K · Post by **Dave K** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:00 pm

1954Etype wrote:
vipergts wrote:I dont ever recall seeing a solenoid like that anywhere near the coil
Used on the 3.8 cars as a starter. Doesn't go anywhere near the coil (that is just to show the part). IIRC, it goes on the round diagonal frame near to the battery. Don't have one one the 4.2 (or, I think, the later 3.8s).

Angus,

Top marks it is a starter soleniod and goes down near the battery almost beside the horn relay.

Dave

skiday · Post by **skiday** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:38 pm

I did realise that it wasn't, or at least very unlikely, to live next to the coil and most likely to be near the battery. Can anyone offer me a photo of one in position please? If they are only used on the 3.8 why would I have one on my 1968 4.2?

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:37 pm

Andrew : the thing which puzzles me is that most of this type of solenoid have a push in button, which yours does not appear to have. My early 4.2 1E20357 in fact had such a solenoid, but mine was on the right hand side of the bulkhead just above the wiper motor . I abandoned it when I rebuilt the car, but it certainly had its uses

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:04 pm

skiday wrote:I did realise that it wasn't, or at least very unlikely, to live next to the coil and most likely to be near the battery. Can anyone offer me a photo of one in position please? If they are only used on the 3.8 why would I have one on my 1968 4.2?

Maybe someone fitted an earlier starter and somehow got it to work, or else swapped flywheel/bell as well? Unlikely. Maybe they tried to jury-rig a failed pre-engaged starter solenoid and feed the starter from an external solenoid? Without a drawing in front of me I don't even know if that is technically feasible - it probably wouldn't be kind to the ring gear.

The 4.2 uses a pre-engaged starter that incorporates the solenoid above the armature. If you are contemplating using that thing anywhere you should be certain you know which connections are which and that your engine earth is good etc. before you go connecting heavy battery cable to it...

I was with a 3.8 E-type restorer the other day who noticed a whiff of smoke from the solenoid area when he tried to start the car (the engine barely nudged round). He asked me to look at the frame-mounted solenoid while he pushed the starter button. The smoke was coming from a series of thin black wires (wiring harness earth connections) as they tried and failed to pass sufficient current to power the starter. A large jump lead clamped to the block and battery earth had it spinning over nicely. I'm sure he will fix the apprently dodgy braided earth cable from bell to frame bolt, but somehow I doubt he is ever going to strip his harness to remove the melted black cables. Here's hoping they didn't melt through adjacent wires....

Pete

skiday · Post by **skiday** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:02 pm

This is quite confusing, but I will certainly get the local expert to check everything over before he starts the car. One thing worth pointing out is that I have changed the starter motor from what was there to the starter from a XJ6 III which was included with the LT77 gearbox. I don't think this solenoid came with it, but it could just be possible.

skiday · Post by **skiday** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:05 am

At least I have tidied up the coil area with a newly fabricated bracket, like so;

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:48 pm

The XJ6 and 4.2 E-type motors work on the same principle so if it came with that lot it would still be redundant, unless the built-in solenoid was dud on that motor. Even then, if it worked at all it would be a Heath Robinson affair.

The solenoid is not polarity-sensitive but obviously you'd need to know which are the primary contacts and which were the heavy duty ones. They all looked pretty chunky from memory, though one or two might be mounting studs.

Pete

Post by **1954Etype** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:16 pm

skiday wrote:At least I have tidied up the coil area with a newly fabricated bracket, like so;

Hmmm, not sure I like the positioning of that relay with the wiring so close to moving parts Andrew.

vacbag · Post by **vacbag** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:04 pm

Nice bracket but.

There could also be a heat issue with both the coil and relay fastened directly to the engine in that area.

Steve.

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:59 pm

If that is the radiator fan relay, I believe the normal location is bolted to the side of the radiator header tank support frame on the right hand side. If it would help I can provide a photo

skiday · Post by **skiday** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:10 am

The coil is sited there on many e-types. The bracket that is gripped by the two top bolts of the alloy cover is original and I have not had any heat issues with either the coil or the relay. I don't have a header tank.

Post by **1954Etype** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:30 am

skiday wrote:The coil is sited there on many e-types. The bracket that is gripped by the two top bolts of the alloy cover is original and I have not had any heat issues with either the coil or the relay. I don't have a header tank.

The coil is mounted in the 'fail early' position as original. Don't think you would have a heat issue my concern is the physical location of the wiring to the relay and the close proximity to moving parts. Jaguar didn't have wires running free for that length without fitting a clip or strap.

skiday · Post by **skiday** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:02 am

I will be sure to clip those wires away tidily or re-site the relay.

What does 'fail early position' mean?

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:12 am

skiday wrote: What does 'fail early position' mean?

It means that coils, like couples, perform better away from a source of high heat - as anyone with a singed bum from a sputtering romantic log fire can tesitfy....

Post by **1954Etype** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:23 am

Also that it should be mounted vertically for a longer life.

Post by **mgcjag** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:16 pm

Hi Andrew the fan relay & bracket on my 69 S2 2+2mounts on the top of the picture frame. photo prior to refurb. Steve [IMGhttp://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb439/mgcjag/021.jpg[/IMG]

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Can anyone tell me where to stick this?

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