Series 1 4.2 Brakes - Help Please.

eTypeG · Post by **eTypeG** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:03 pm

I recently had the IRS rebuilt including the rear calipers, in addition I also had the front calipers rebuilt. After refitting I bled the brakes, however I have found that the brake pedal is soft and travels down below half way, allowing the pedal to rise the next press finds the pedal hard and not travelling very far at all. Not sure if my bleeding was not up to the required standard or if there is a bigger issue?.

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:32 am

This is a fairly common problem on 4.2 cars with the remote servo . You probably still have some air trapped in the route to the rear cylinders. It sometimes helps to bleed at intermediate points such as the pipe from pedal master cylinder at its entry into the servo master cylinder ( put a rag round to prevent squirting and paint damage and wash with copious water afterwards) and at the outlet pipes of the servo cylinder. Heuer advocates a Mityvac to suck fluid through rather than to pressurise it, and others favour just opening a rear bleed and letting gravity take its course

Post by **1954Etype** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:27 am

I have always used an autobleed. Takes a feed from a wheel to pressurise the system. Start at the furthest nipple away from the master and work your way in. (rears first).

eTypeG · Post by **eTypeG** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:27 am

christopher storey wrote:This is a fairly common problem on 4.2 cars with the remote servo . You probably still have some air trapped in the route to the rear cylinders. It sometimes helps to bleed at intermediate points such as the pipe from pedal master cylinder at its entry into the servo master cylinder ( put a rag round to prevent squirting and paint damage and wash with copious water afterwards) and at the outlet pipes of the servo cylinder. Heuer advocates a Mityvac to suck fluid through rather than to pressurise it, and others favour just opening a rear bleed and letting gravity take its course

Many thanks for the reply - You say it helps to bleed at intermediate points such as the pipe from the pedal master cylinder, is it a case of just undoing the joints or is there more to it.

I forgot to mention its a dual brake system (seperate front and back).

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:43 pm

Just loosen the joint a turn or two with a rag wrapped round it . It may not help, but it does tend to eliminate the problem where air between pedal master and servo means that the servo shuttle is not moving enough to bleed one or other of the brake circuits properly . One of the oddities of the E type system is that the pedal master does not in fact work the wheel cylinders at all except when there is a failure of one or other of the circuits and the servo shuttle goes forward through its full travel . What the pedal does in normal circs is to cause the shuttle to move which in turn operates the wheel cylinder circuits

eTypeG · Post by **eTypeG** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:43 pm

Took the above advise on board and bled the brakes again, but this time with the help of a pressure bleed kit (instead of my wife!!) bought from a large high street car and cycle parts retailer, turned out to be the best tool I have ever bought. The rear brakes still had air in them which was removed wihin 10mins (without removing the shocks!!). The brake pedal is firm and the car stops perfectly.

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:15 am

Yep, best thing I ever did - was it an EasiBleed?

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:29 am

Is this the same system that uses the spare wheel as a pressure power source and you screw the end on the filler bottle? If so I would avoid it like the plague because my mate had one and when he used it (not for the first time) the air pressure fractured the filler bottle and he ended up with brake fluid sprayed everywhere. Maybe OK if you use silicone (although the clean up will take some time) but it is hardly a sensible approach to brake bleeding as neither the bottle or the screw cap are designed to handle 30psi+

Only system I use or recommend is a MityVac mv8000; costs twice the price of the Eezibleed but it is fool proof and poses no risk.

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:03 pm

Sadly I too have had the exploding 'Easibleed' problem (on my TVR) and i would not use it again as I had brake fluid spray all over the bodywork - luckily i had a hose pipe nearby and could spray a lot of water over the entire car.

I accept it may have been user error - but i would not take the risk again.

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:18 pm

Chris

Unlikely to be user error. The problem lies in the supplied bottle caps which may be a perfect fit on an original glass or hard plastic bottle but when it comes to repro items, as most of us have found out, the quality of material and size leave a lot to be desired. The scary part is you pressurise the system and leave it unattended whilst you get under the car to bleed the brakes. Utter madness to use one on any classic car when vacuum assistance is readily available and cost effective.

eTypeG · Post by **eTypeG** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:19 pm

Yes its the easybleed kit, I had a couple of minor issues with it like the air feed tube becoming detached from the tyre value attachment, and the kit overfilling the brake fluid reservoirs, but overall a very useful piece of kit to have.

eTypeG · Post by **eTypeG** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:35 pm

Heuer wrote:Maybe OK if you use silicone (although the clean up will take some time) but it is hardly a sensible approach to brake bleeding as neither the bottle or the screw cap are designed to handle 30psi+ Only system I use or recommend is a MityVac mv8000; costs twice the price of the Eezibleed but it is fool proof and poses no risk.

The easybleed system I used recommended a max 20psi.

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:41 pm

Still way too high! Pressure = bad; vacuum = good. Why anyone would want to create a brake fluid bomb is beyond me. You used it and got away with it, now chuck it in the bin and buy a Mityvac: http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_hvpk.asp#MV8000

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:34 pm

David,

I have had mine for years and successfully bled all my cars over time. No issues ever. Mine wont be going anywhere near a bin!

Angus :D

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:15 pm

The words 'borrowed time' come to mind! At least you are using silicone so little harm done when it explodes :?

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:43 pm

Little chance of that with the pressure I use.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:03 pm

1954Etype wrote:
Heuer wrote:The words 'borrowed time' come to mind! At least you are using silicone so little harm done when it explodes :?
Little chance of that with the pressure I use.

Correct. Provided you can get a cap to suit, these systems are prefectly OK. Nowhere does it say (and you would be mad) you HAVE to use even 20 psi, let alone connect it to a 30+psi roadwheel without letting some air out first. Just because a manufacturer gives a safe maximum, why would you push it to the max? It stands to reason you only need a few psi above atmospheric to move brake fluid along. A sheet of instructions is no excuse to leave your brain in the airing cupboard...

The issue I have with them is the range of cap fittings and my disinclination to make up 'specials' for bikes with square reservoirs etc. That's why I bought the MityVac, even though it has the weakness of all vacuum systems that tend to suck air in past the bleed nipples and I don't want to have to grease or seal them to stop that. I put up with it and it's OK. Both systems are OK. The fact that some nutter blew brake fluid all over the show is like saying we shouldn't drive because people do stupid things with those too.

The other good reason to use Mity Vac is because you can use the gun to test for vacuum leaks on inlet plumbing, dizzy advance units etc. although I wish they supplied better tubing than the fast-perishing stuff they give you.

Pete

Shimmer1 · Post by **Shimmer1** » Thu May 26, 2016 12:34 pm

The problem I had with the vacuum method was air being sucked from around the nipple despite grease being applied to stop this.
I have 100 ml syringes on order and will try that method. (See another post.)

Shimmer1 · Post by **Shimmer1** » Sun May 29, 2016 11:34 am

100ml syringe arrived and I used it to bleed the rear brakes as per that post.
I`m pleased to say it was a successful method which I can recommend.
I re piped the rear brakes some many years ago so the bleed nipple is on the diff side of the calipers. Much easier to reach.

cactusman · Post by **cactusman** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:02 pm

Easibleed is the invention of the devil. I have one but all it does is spray fluid everywhere. Get yourself a visibleed....basically a short tube that fits on the bleed nipple with a one way valve at the other end. Pop the end in a jar. Loosen nipple. STAMP hard on the pedal a few times till the fluid in the pipe is bubble free. Job done. Keep an eye on the reservoir while doing and top as necessary at the end. As with all bleed jobs start with the nipple furthest from the reservoir. J

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

The 'E' Type Forum

Series 1 4.2 Brakes - Help Please.

#1 Series 1 4.2 Brakes - Help Please.

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9

#10

#11

#12

#13

#14

#15

#16

#17

#18 Mityvac 8000

#19 Syringe bleeding

#20 Brakes