I will be a new Type owner in January!!

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:49 pm

+1 for everything Pete has said. Jaguar spent a lot of time and money developing the E-Type in the hands of Norman Dewis so anyone who comes along and says poly this or coil over that is an 'improvement' had better have thousands of hours of documented testing to prove their point!

You have a great car - don't touch it.

MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:55 pm

I'm not quite sure that the guy recommending coil over shocks has quite thought through the consequences of his ideas:- the torsion bar setup sends the suspension load onto two large double angle iron brackets going across the whole front left and right floor sections of the car between the firewall and a cross brace under the drivers seat - i.e. the load is transferred to the body (tub) of the car. By contrast a coil over shock will transfer that same load onto the picture frame at the top of the shocks and so the whole car weight as magnified by suspension movement will be available to twist the very thin metal of the engine frames as the car goes over the bumps. As set up, the engine frames only take a static load plus any over/under oscillation of the suspension, not the actual suspension movement itself.

The shocks or "dampers" only damp movement - the springs, be they coils or torsion bars that transfer the loads - from one end of the spring to the other. In that respect, the engine frames are only taking additional suspension load when the springs over/under oscillate to a new level.

Discuss...

kind regards
Marek

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:39 pm

Marek is quite right, All of which brings into question your inspection report! :?

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:32 am

I didn't even notice the C-word. My eyes glazed over at the polybush mention.

I have seen some braced picture frame coil-over lightened 6cyl cars but you're quite right. The physics is very different and 'Inspector Clouseau' knows not whereof he speaks.

Hazy · Post by **Hazy** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:42 am

Some good advice, and its quite right, Ive not even driven it yet. In all fairness to the "inspector" he was told by the garage that I race a BMW and that I have a track focussed Ferrari so when I asked if there was anything that he thought may improve the car he was probably trying to suggest improvements in keeping with my "enthusiastic" driving style!!

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:08 am

The more serious point, I'm afraid, is that it sounds as though the inspector does not have a clue about E types , and therefore, as someone else has pointed out, the adequacy of his inspection must be open to question . Frankly, one wonders whether he has even been under the car for him to suggest "coilovers" for it. The construction of these cars is rather specialised and for a report to have any value , it needs someone who knows what to look for .

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:01 am

Indeed. As I suggested earlier you might want to consider taking the car up to CMC in Bridgnorth and letting them have a look at it.

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:35 am

I have to agree with my fellow posters - my thoughts are that unless the car is 100% concours and a multiple show winner, to only have a few blisters and a modern stereo as the only negatives implies that the inspector is not looking properly.

With a car that age - there just has to be more that is not correct / non-standard / needs addressing than that. I am sure it probably is a very good car but there has to be *something* that is not right that an ordinary person cannot see in a cursory view.

I bet the inspector will refuse to cover your costs if you find an issue he didnt tell you about...

MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:26 pm

Dear Chris,

All we can conclude is that the inspector isn't much of an engineer. I doubt that his Stromberg versus SU point has much merit to it either, but at least he's spotted the diference in spec.

A more interesting question to answer would be how many etypes the inspector has appraised and how many has he actually restored himself.

I'm guessing you would not be amused to be on the receiving end of such idle speculation. To put that in perspective, your car is much older than the red car and looks to be in no different overall condition judging by a few internet photos. We simply can't tell very much from a few perfectly presented glossy pics.

kind regards
Marek

Hazy · Post by **Hazy** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:00 pm

Wow some fairly serious negativity here! I guess I need to address a few issues here

I have brought the car from Nick Whale, whom I know from racing and has a reputation for selling only good quality stuff, so I was fairly comfortable from the off.

CMC at Bridgnorth are localish to me so I contacted them to do the inspection, but they failed to return my calls...I dont accept that sort of customer service so I contacted Martin Lane of Lanes cars.

He had to delay the inspection by a couple of days due to unexpected problems, but he kept both myself and Nick Whale informed.

Upon completing the inspection on Saturday he rang me to tell me that basically in his opinion it was and I quote "a nice useable car with no major issues" I said there must be something and he mentioned the small blemishes, the radio, a couple of small covers missing from the engine bay, and the non standard SU carbs which he considered to be an improvement over the Strombergs.

I asked him if there were any sympathetic upgrades I could consider and he said "Mark (Nick Whale) mentioned you race so you may find the ride a bit too wallowy some you may want to look at poly-bushes and/or a suspension upgrade". It was my assumption this would be in the form of coil overs as this is what I did to my Lotus Sunbeam, perhaps I am wrong?

Lastly chatting to Mark at Nick Whale today, he said how thorough he thought Martin Lane was and the amount of time he spent on the car, writing alot of details down and taking many many pictures for his report.

So all in all I think the car is spot on and I am VERY happy with the job Martin did for me, I shall be using his services very soon for the replacement of the non period radio.

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:37 pm

Please don't think we are being negative - everyone here is looking to ensure your E-Type experience is the best. No argument with any of your choices of informed opinion and no doubt you will enjoy the car. Surprised you got no response from CMC though, I will mention it to Nick. Please give them another chance as they are very busy.

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:47 pm

Ah now that sounds more promising and the car certainly looks great...

I think us old farts are just sceptical about Etypes that sound so good as they so rarely are but if you trust the views given - I for one have no issue with that.

Enjoy the car, it will make a great addition to your stable although you have other better handling cars so enjoy this old girl the way she is.

4 wheel drifts is the racing style I believe :D

MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:52 pm

Good. I hope the car lives up to its appraisal. It certainly clears matters up somewhat regarding the proposed treatment of the front suspension.

Welcome from a fellow s3 owner.

My car, (perhaps not) sympathetically upgraded, or more correctly, totally redesigned, is on the jag-lovers.org website under the name "MarekH". See http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_vi ... 1320597978 amongst others.

Apologies to Chris if my comments appeared a bit harsh, but it seemed unjustified to conclude that something must be wrong - both cars look to be in great condition.

kind regards
Marek

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:21 pm

Oh no offence taken at all Marek, we are all friends here :)

To be honest an inspector would find more than a few things wrong / non standard with my car. It is after all a home rebuild - its not concours by any stretch. I built it to be driven

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:27 pm

Great looking car, Hazy, and I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with it.

Don't believe all the nonsense about the 6 cylinder cars being the 'sportscars' and the 12 cylinder ones being the wallowing old cruisers. Put either on a track and you'll soon be seasick! But in standard form, they are both fantastic for covering a lot of road miles quickly, in comfort whilst putting a huge smile on your face.....it's really what Jags were all about.

If you do want to get the car handling around the track, there is plenty that you can do to improve the handling and performance. but obviously it will be at the expense of the rubbery comfort that the Jaguar affords.

Have a look at this as a taster intro:

http://www.jaguarv12etype.com/performancebuilder.pdf

and if you want to do some serious work, have a chat to this man:

http://www.rob-beere-racing.co.uk/

He knows E Types, especially the 12s.

But of course, try it first. It may just surprise you what a well sorted package the standard car is for road use.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:17 am

OK, no harm, no foul - the inspector did not recommend coil-overs so he is in the clear. Not sure why Hazy assumed he meant coil-overs but that's OK, he is new to E-types and would not realise the structural implications of what is a massively greater engineering change than it might appear to 'the naked eye' as it were.

I think the inspection issue is a moot point as well. I've no idea what Hazy paid, if anything, but a car inspection is no different to a house survey. I've done paying work and I make it clear what I have or have not checked. This isn't just on my whim, it depends on what the seller will allow apart from anything, as well as the facilities where the car is and time slot available once you factor in travel to and fro. I've never yet done an overnight trip.

I use a digital bore scope in some cavities, much as a house surveyor might lift the carpet or a floorboard or two, but would never guarantee the entire building was free of all infestations on that basis. A quickie buyer's inspection - car or house - is not the same as a full structural survey with much deeper examination, some of which would require post-inspection making good of damage to paint finishes, holes drilled, etc.

As for sportiness yes, there's no reason a V12 can't be a great ride even if it never going to be as hardcore as a 'track-focused Ferrari'. But a correct 3.8 is noticeably more 'sprightly' and eager than even a 4.2 of equal weight, never mind a heavier V12. There is something about the peppy 3.8 that gives it a different character. Even my 3.8 manual Mk2 felt perkier than the several 4.2 E-types I've had, although it was undoubtedly a little slower and didn't handle as well. All references are to broadly standard cars of course, as you can tune the nuts off anything if you have a mind to.

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:15 am

To put things in perspective this is the sort of report I would expect when an E-Type was being inspected:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8496016/Servic ... 0Jones.doc
This was on my car which had been regularly serviced by myself and a "specialist" for the previous eight years since its total restoration. A CMC report can be pretty devastating although they do warn you not to be disheartened as they go through it item by item, pointing out what is essential and what can wait. The report cost ?600 which was credited against any work carried out - which was significant! On the other hand the car has never driven or performed better. E-Type UK offer a similar service.

About the only thing more disheartening than a CMC report is having Angus look over your car

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Now that IS harsh David, I only picked up a couple of things!

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:34 pm

And they were much appreciated! You ought to start offering inspection services yourself because I saw you at work on Lee's car - amazing attention to detail.

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:46 pm

You're too kind. I'm blushing here!

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