S2 bonnet on S1.5 car?

[FrankMolleman]

Hello my name is Frank Molleman, I live in the Netherlands, and I am busy finding my first E-Type. I am learning details each day, but still lack some of the knowledge to fully justify the correctness of the S1.5 2+2 on the images below.
I am in the process of purchasing this car and I have some doubt about the some details. The front bumper seems S2, as for the bonnet I am not certain. It has indicator lights above the bumper, no side lights, but I am not sure about the opening on the front, weather this is a modified S2 bonnet to make it look like a s1.5 bonnet, or that this is original fitment.
The seats with head rests seem to be S2 as well.

Any knowledgable comments are welcomed!

Frank


http://s835.photobucket.com/user/Knarf237/slideshow/

[Heuer]

Start by downloading and reading this: http://www.jcna.com/library/concours/2006/e-type1.5.pdf It is the JCNA guide to the S1.5. You could also read and compare with the S2 guide: http://www.jcna.com/library/concours/2006/e-type2.pdf

[FrankMolleman]

I have already covered all these pages from JCNA, but please check the pictures and you will see what I mean.
As mentioned in my first post, I am doubting if the opening in the bonnet is the correct dimension. In the JCNA files nothing is written about the size of the opening, just small or big. I am not experience enough to judge what this is.

[Heuer]

The bonnet of the S1.5 had the same mouth as the S1, recessed badge bar with a round Growler badge and open headlights. The headlight eyebrows were shorter than on the S2 and the indicators were the same as the S1. What you have pictured is correct apart from the mouth, badge bar, badge and the missing bumper extensions. Someone went to a lot of trouble to do all that! To put it right you will need a new bonnet centre section, new front bumper extensions, badge bar and badge. If they bodged this repair I suggest you check carefully for any other damage or changes to the front of the car.

[FrankMolleman]

So my assumption this is a S2 bonnet is correct! Probably the original front got damaged at some point in time.
I will put some extra attention to any damaged parts under the bonnet

Generally the car serves my demands, drivable but not concours, 3x SU, manual gear and a rear seat space to bring our son.

Hopefully this car has a new owner next week

[Heuer]

No it is not an S2 bonnet, it is an S2 bonnet centre section and probably an S2 under panel. The wings are S1.5 as are the headlamp eyebrows, bumpers and side lights. To get these to fit an S2 bonnet is a lot of work so I assume they decided on adapting the S2 centre section to fit the S1.5 eyebrows.

[FrankMolleman]

I have read again in the JCNA files and found out that the S2 bonnet was limited by a gas filled operating strut.

On one of the pictures I have received from the car this strut is visible. So it seems more S2 parts have been used.

[Heuer]

Yes but the S1.5 bonnet linkage bracket on the tubular frame is still there and I notice they are painted some sort of metallic colour when they should be the same as the body, yellow in this case. Has the car had a re-paint? I would suggest even more caution before agreeing to purchase. Do you have pictures of the engine bay and dashboard for a start?

[FrankMolleman]

I will upload the pictures I have to photobucket. If you click the picture you will have access the the entire library.
The front subframe seems galvanized or some similar finish, it is definitely not pained. According the the current owner the car has been restored some 25 years ago, and had a repaint.

[johnney]

As David stated earlier the centre section of the bonnet is S2 the bottom section after looking at the rear side of it, I would say is S1 as it has the holes/captive nuts for the balance bar links. However the front lower mouth is not visible in any of your pictures and if it was S2 then the raised pressings for the side lights are missing. The 1.5 judging guide while useful is incorrect on some points, for example it states that one of the ways a car can be quickly identified as a S1.5 is by the dash having rocker switches. Not so as plenty of the later S1 cars had toggle switches. It doesn't look to have been restored too well, the front right side bonnet hinge is homemade, the carb dashpot dampers are not original etc. We need to see a picture of the front to give a better opinion on the bonnet and the chassis number of course.

[288gto]

Is it me or are the cam covers the late S2 ones with the notch out for the crossover?
Again looking at your photobucket pictures it seems to have the late S2 steering column lock as well.

Simon

[FrankMolleman]

I do not have more pictures of the bonnet than the ones posted. The car seems a bit of bitza, with a replaced front frame, S2 parts, also the car is originally automatic, now converted to manual. The car number is 1E78856BW I do not have an engine number, nor do I know if the original engine is in the car.
Can this still be a good purchase??

[Heuer]

How much are they asking for it? It needs to be really cheap to take a chance on it I would say. Also the stone guard is missing.

[FrankMolleman]

20k$ but i think that is negotiable.

[osgii]

I bought my car without having seen it. I'll never do it again. It was really close to an original s1.5 on pictures, but when it arrived here in CH, many things was hidden.

If your seller is not able to confirm if the engine is a matching number one, its not a good sign.

[christopher storey]

It would not be the first car I would go for. Is the price US dollars or Canadian . And where is the car. If it is still in Canada then you will need to add freight, insurance, clearance costs , and European Taxes/import duty on the total, if you are bringing it to Europe , and by then it is becoming quite an expensive car . Also, have you actually seen it? Judging condition from photographs is notoriously unreliable particularly where, as here, the car is photographed when wet.

Of course, if you have seen it,it is a less dangerous proposition, but I agree that it is a bitza car, and that has to be reflected in the price which by N.American standards does not sound all that cheap

[FrankMolleman]

I would never ever purchase a car unseen, I have a couple more classic cars and I know this is very tricky. I will be in Toronto where the car is next Friday, so I can touch it, knock on the panels and probably even drive it.
The price is in CAD and the shipment incl. duties and insurance are around Eur 2.000,00.
If you compare what you can purchase for that budget in Europe, you look at serious restauration projects!

[Heuer]

Maybe you would have difficulty buying something for that price in Europe, but in the USA:
http://tinyurl.com/pev8lmv
http://tinyurl.com/oszejsl

And quite frankly I think that yellow car will eventually come under the classification of 'serious restoration project'. I am not even sure you can safely plate the frames given they are Reynolds steel and brazed - never seen it done before so you may want to do some research on that (plating can make the underlying metal brittle). The car is on XKEdata.com but it was only added a couple of weeks ago so nothing new there.

[FrankMolleman]

I am pretty sure the plating is not a problem, I had a Rickman motorcycle before with a nickel plated frame that was also made of Brazed Reynolds 531 tubes. Temperatures for Chrome, Nickel and Zinc plating never go over 150deg C.

I am really curious what I will discover next week.

[Heuer]

Please keep us up to date and remember the Forum is very active so take more pictures if you are in doubt, post them and seek opinion. Good luck!