Alternator with integrated regulator

grhh · Post by **grhh** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:35 am

I use to have one of those on my car but it only lasted 5 years (20 000 kms)
the weak point seems to be the diode pack. That's the reason why I have fitted a Bosch alternator which is a lot more reliable. The good point is that you can fit the original pulley of your Lucas alternator, as it's a direct fit.

Post by **Heuer** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:10 pm

Do you have a part number Gerald? Also did it require much modification to the mounting brackets?

grhh · Post by **grhh** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:10 pm

yes David

It's a rover part : YLE101 570 ( this is the part number written on my alternator)
can be find here :
http://www.dfjauto.com/DFJ010183/ROVER-YLE101570

my, was a a 65 amps but you can have it in lower amps as well. In the above link it's rated at 55 amps.

As for the bracket, I was using an E type s2 bracket (C30615). If your car is fitted with the early bracket (C25158) you can cut a brass or what ever tube to size and use it as a spacer between the rear of your bracket and the alternator rear arm, of course you will need to use a longer alternator securing bolt. according to the picture at the beginning of this post, you might need a longer adjusting link to fit to the side of the alternator.
Hope this help
Kind regards
Gerald

Post by **Heuer** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:14 pm

Superb and detailed information Gerald - I will pursue as you suggest!

grhh · Post by **grhh** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:30 pm

Ok, keep us posted about how you get on

but before doing so, you might like to read the following as it seems your current alternator is the Lucas brother of the Magneti Marelli a 127. The pictures on this doc looks very similar to yours :
http://www.fag.hiof.no/~frodehaa/alternator.htm

also you want to check the size of the shaft as it can range from 15mm to 17mm. on my car it was a direct fit but, just to make sure the pulley and fan will fit. Your 3 pins connector at the back is definitely coming from a rover car, as I use to have the very same.
Kind regards
Gerald

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:23 am

Gerald

The Rover alternator you are using looks like a 'standard' A127 bodied Lucas - you can tell by the unusual regulator shape and the connector arrangement on the back. These seem to come in hundreds of variants and manufactured by all the makers. I have been trying to find some dimensional data for these alternators but no luck so far. In particular are they all the same dimensionally.

The reason I'm also looking for a new alternator is because I have an A127 alternator on my 4.2 but unfortunately it's diameter is bigger than an 11AC and as a result it is very difficult to fit on the alternator belt when using the original pulley and twin V belt. I want to retain the standard pulley and belt.
I have the original bracket and specially made up spacers as you suggest.

So I was wondering what pulley and belt you were using with your alternator?

Also if anyone has dimension data for the A127 style that would be welcome.

My existing alternator is as this picture

grhh · Post by **grhh** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:11 pm

Steve,

Yes they are using the same component as apparently Lucas owns Magneti Marelli. So the dimension are most probably the same.

For your belt problem you can eliminate the jockey pulley which you don't really need and, set the belt tension with a longer adjusting arm, like that your belt will be easier to fit.

I use to run the double grooved pulleys but, when I did fit the air conditioning
I had to move to the single grooved pulleys instead and, it did make life a lot easier to find the right length belt.

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:59 pm

I was wondering if one of these alternators would do the job: http://www.cambridgemotorsport.com/Race ... -Batteries

40Amp and 50Amp versions:

They are small, light and modified to withstand high temperatures. One of these would be ideal but what I need is someone who a) has an E-Type, b) knows E-Type's backwards and c) lives in Letchworth so they can pop along to CMS and check out the fitting opportunities. Now who do we know that fits that bill?

...........

http://www.mossjaguar.com/

grhh · Post by **grhh** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:54 pm

You can only use the 50 amps or 60 amps with the 50 mm wide pivot, it will be a direct fit to your current bracket. the adjusting arm will need to be circular, but the big question is, can they supply this alternator with a double grooved pulley as I doubt the shaft will have the right dia for your original pulley.

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:57 pm

The 40A (actually 45A) would fit with spacers either side of the pivot point I think. They actually offer 2,3,4,5 and 6 groove pulley's as options for ?24.50: http://www.cambridgemotorsport.com/Pulleys-and-Fittings

grhh · Post by **grhh** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:54 pm

1) it will be very hard to have the correct alignment with your water pump pulley. in general you use the front of the pivot to make the correct alignment. You only fit spacer at the rear if need be.

2) you will need a spacer for the adjusting arm as well.

don't forget that you need some stiffness, with 3 spacers all together it wont be strong enough...
also make sure that the offset of the pulley they can supply is compatible
with your car.

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:07 pm

Agreed on the 40A version - I was just free thinking. The 50A version looks to be the best starting point as it requires the least modification. The pulley is the deciding point although having a bespoke one made won't be that difficult. CMS also sell a cranked support arm to help with fitting.

grhh · Post by **grhh** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:54 am

exactly what I think the 50 amps is the best starting choice if you want to go modern, but keep in mind modern doesn't always mean better... generally
CMS do sale some good quality product. I've bought my high torque starter motor from them and so far so good.

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:43 pm

Spoken to Cambridge Motor Sports and they recommend the 50A alternator (50A is the hot output so ~60A when cold) and can supply the double vee pulley. The shaft on their alternator is 15mm so you can either fit a sleeve and use the original 17mm pulley or the one they supply. They are currently out of stock but are expecting more within 3 weeks and will let me know when they are available. Twin fans and designed for use up to 15,000rpm so should be happy and long lived in an E-Type:

grhh · Post by **grhh** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:10 pm

sound very good let us know how you get on ...

johnetype · Post by **johnetype** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:54 am

I would consider using GXE2211 from Minispares.com. It's a replacement for the Lucas 16 and 17ACR units of old. Compact, standard fitment and connectors and 45 amps. Costs less than ?45 new and you can fit whatever hand of Lucas fan you need for cooling.

david muir · Post by **david muir** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:16 am

Got an old Mini one fitted-works perfectly (rebuild kits are plentiful & cheap). In fact , when I fitted it , many moons ago after dynamo threw its hand in, I only used the pivot bolt at bottom and then used the original top dynamo bracket to 'push' down on the alternator body since it didn't line up with the top alt. mount. Been working like that for 10+ years-pulley run is clockwise so always pulling alternator 'away' from block.

Post by **Heuer** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:15 pm

Spoken to CMS again and they hope to have the 50amp wide mount alternator back in stock the third week in November. Having looked at the various Edge versions this is the one that seems best suited physically and electrically to the E-Type. They are Nippondenso alternators with twin cooling fans, renowned for their reliability, lightweight and size - small enough to allow easy belt replacement.

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:38 pm

Just an update on my earlier posts on this thread. I never did find any dimensional data for different types of Lucas alternators (ACR and the later A127). However others had implied all Lucas type ones had the same shaft diameter and therefore fans and pulleys were interchangeable. I eventually bought a 'Lucas' 18ACR 55 Amp alternator because they are so cheap it was worth a try to see how they fitted. You can find them from ?40 upwards on eBay and elsewhere and are made to fit as replacements for most British cars in the 60s and 70s (e.g. Minis as suggested on an earlier post). There are clearly Chinese factories churning them out in various output current levels. The good thing is that the body diameter is less than on my A127 later type and therefore it was clear it was going to fit OK and not touch the cylinder head as my A127 does. I had assumed the pulley on my current A127 one was the original 11AC one re-fitted. The new 18ACR had a smaller fan and single groove pulley so both the fan and pulley needed swapping over. I won't bore you with the difficulty of getting these items off both units. In the end I had to make a tool using a block wood and a steel pin to do it.

The big problem was that the new alternator shaft diameter was smaller than that of the original pulley diameter by 2 mm - original 5/8? or 17mm and new one about 15mm. As a result I had to make up a steel sleeve to fit inside the pulley shaft hole. Luckily I had some 1mm thin steel tube to do this with. The exposed shaft length was just the right length to accommodate the wider double vee pulley. Alignment with the engine pulleys wasn't too bad and I was able to re-use the long bolt and spacers I had already had which mount on the original alternator mounting plate. Only thing was the new alternator mounting lugs needing drilling out to make the holes bigger. All seems OK now and I can easily adjust the belt and replace it with no problem. The only downside is that the unit is longer than the 11AC with the ugly black cover on the back and is therefore nearer the exhaust manifold.

and.nox · Post by **and.nox** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:04 pm

Marek,

Like Kevin back in september last year, I too am interested to learn which XJS alternator you converted to for the V12 and what was involved in fitting and wiring it up? Did you have to alter the mounting brackets to align the pulley?

My Butec is also somewhat feeble and continues to give me headaches. i see you responded privately to Kevin. any assistance would be much appreciated.

Andrew

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