Wire Wheels

[PeterCrespin]

Rim strips are used an bicycle wheels and tyres - you should not need them on car wheels and I don't even know if they are available. Does sound like a mistake during fitting but what leads you to suspect that?

As a MINIMUM, to avoid an uncontestable lawsuit for negligence, the shop should replace the flat tire, remove and remount & balance the other tires and fit rim tapes to each wheel (rim strip in USA?). You could easily have been writing this from a hospital bed or the executor of your will could be doing the job. If your tubes really were mounted onto bare rims it's a scandal. Anyone professionally mounting tubed tires on exposed-nipple wire wheels (i.e. wheels not sealed for tubeless use) who does NOT protect the tub with rim tape is negligent, as it is an essential safety element. There should be no guesswork needed because either that wheel and the others have tapes fitted, or they don't. If not, the other wheels are very likely to puncture and the negligence is proven IMO.

This is the kind of rubber rim tape I prefer, with the valve hole pierced in the double-thickness overlap joint. On E-type wheels with offset valve holes it needs to be fitted with the hole over a plain bit of rim well, between two spoke nipples:

http://tinyurl.com/nz8mu8b

Tire shops that don't do many wire wheels often use a couple of layers of duct tape over the spoke heads but this, whilst better than nothing, is second best. It needs care to avoid sharp creases in the tape and the glue softens with heat so the tape can bunch up, especially after tire replacement. I have had wheels where some kind of branded tough thermoplastic strip was used that set hard over the spoke nipples after being laid around them.

Anyone running around with tubed tires who suspects they may not have rim tape is asking for trouble.

Pete

[jag68]

Just to throw in my two bits on the wheel/tire issue. In the 90's I raced and autocrossed a 65 E Type ots on MSW wheels - 15 x 6 unpainted. Ran on Goodrich competition tires with tubes. Over 3 - 4 years I broke a few spokes but the wheels performed well. In 2000 I started racing a '65 E Type coupe, totally race prepared 375 bhp etc. I ran on Dayton wire wheels 15 x 7, with radial Hoosier tires - the last set were 55 series. The wheels were tubless, stainless racing spokes which meant they were a little thicker than stock (now supplied on all Dayton wheels). They performed flawlessly. Never bent a wheel or broke or loosened a spoke, and that included routinely driving over curbs and more that a few off track excursions often at high speeds. I currently autocross my '68 E Type ots, and hold the record for JCNA Street prepared class. The first 5 years autocrossing I ran on Dayton 16 x 7 wheels with Goodyear F1 street tires. Last year I ran with 17 x 7 Daytons with aluminum rims and Dunlop Direzza's.
My observations: the wheels performed flawlessly, again never bent a wheel or broke a spoke. Big tires dramatically improve (actually they transform) the cars handling, both braking and turning - there is simply no arguing this. In JCNA slaloms, and all other slaloms I'm significantly faster than an E Type on stock tires. It's harder to turn the steering wheel than with stock tires only when the car is stationary. The ride is just the same even with 45 series tires like the Dunlops. Esthetics are of course in the eye of the beholder, but I like the look of the car, as do most people, as the car is consistantly a people's choice winner in the Jaguar shows I go to. I've never had a tire come off the rim, nor a blow out of any kind (in fact I can't recall even having a flat). I've never had a leak from the spoke sealing inside the wheel, although I would have to concede that's possible (but not probable). I think after all the abuse I've heaped on these Daytons if there were going to be problems I would have experienced them. I would without reservation recommend Dayton wire wheels.

The problem with using modern tires with tubes is as David has suggested. Back in the old days they finished the inside of tires - today they don't. You will eventually wear the tube enough for a leak, particularly if you drive at high speeds. Done it one more than one occasion, as have friends with this setup. Tubeless is the only way to go.

[adv_rider]

Thank you Peter, unfortunately I live in Mexico where the law of the jungle is what rules.... and based on this, the negligence was mine for over-trusting my mechanic. I have to say my mechanic is a knowledgeable and dedicated guy, who specialize in British cars and himself is a vintage racer .... nevertheless, he just told me the tires were done by an external shop without his supervision. I suspect they used the old rim tape, or none, as I didn't provided new ones, trusting they may have some ... second mistake! I got my tires and tubes at Coker Tire, same as your post but they don'r carry 15" rim tapes, only 16" and up. I will buy a new tube and tire, and 4 new rim tapes, and will check the other tires ... I think for rim tape, the option I linked on my previous post would be ok, Otherwise please let me know.

Irony: I've driving my car for the last couple of months (infrequently), with Michelin XVS's built in the 90's, that came with the car. The tubes had a big "made in china"... New Michelin tubes and XVS tires ... less than a day bam!

Rodrigo Conde

I am considering the Dayton Wheels to remove the tubes... but I have spent too much money already in some things.

[PeterCrespin]

I think the 16" rim tapes will be fine - there will be some stretch even for a 16" rim. So they may not snap as tight on a 15" wheel but a couple of short pieces of two-sided adhesive tape will hold them in place during tire mounting. Thereafter, tube pressure does the job.

In my young days (read 'poor') I ran mis-matched tube/rim/tire sizes on a few wheels to save buying replacements and use what I had. With care, there is some leeway on rubber stuff. I got away with it anyway and my worst 'off' on a bike was two days after I had followed best practice and fitted a brand new Michelin tube in Turkey, to go with the new rear tire I had carried all the way there. The new tube turned out to be faulty so I refitted the old one.

[Heuer]

Ahh - my mistake I was thinking of the cotton rim bands used on bicycles

The rubber spoke guards are usually sold as 14" - 17" stretchable versions: http://tinyurl.com/paj2jqj

If you can get away without using any sticky tape all the better. Over time and with heat it the adhesive could migrate and come into contact with the inner tube.

As regards your choice of inner tube the Michelin 15F Offset Valve Tube is the correct one. If you are in doubt about yours I suggest you order the tubes and bands from Longstone Tyres - they will be with you in four days and you know they will be right.

[adv_rider]

Thank you gentlemen, I jut ordered these rubber bands: http://partsxks.com/i-7085520-17-9600-1 ... -four.html

I'll make sure that talc is also used on each tire.

I hate to feel uncomfortably worried while driving or riding. Gotta learn from airplane pilots.

[Durango2k]

If you can?t get a rubber band maybe a hose from a children bike might work.... cut it to your needs.

Carsten

[Heuer]

Check the inside of each tyre to ensure there are no sticky labels and feel for any irregularities or mould marks (unlikely with Michelin XVS). If you find any run a palm sander around the surface to get things smooth and dust both the tube and tyre with talcum powder. Utmost care is required when fitting to ensure the tube is not stretched or pinched and the installation tools do not come into contact with the tube.

[adv_rider]

Check the inside of each tyre to ensure there are no sticky labels and feel for any irregularities or mould marks (unlikely with Michelin XVS). If you find any run a palm sander around the surface to get things smooth and dust both the tube and tyre with talcum powder. Utmost care is required when fitting to ensure the tube is not stretched or pinched and the installation tools do not come into contact with the tube.

I will, thank you.

[daykrolik]

David and Rodrigo both noted something not to be missed. Two years ago I put Dunlop SP Aquajet 185 VR 15 tires (with tubes) on my '67 OTS. Recently a tire went flat, fortunately not while I was driving. Each of the Dunlops had two small labels inside the sidewall of the tire. The glue or paint on these labels ate through one of my tubes, causing the flat. Be sure any such labels and their glue are removed from your tires if you are mounting with tubes!

[adv_rider]

I forgot to update my findings.

It seems that the wheel had some rust and the tube was punctured with chrome flakes.

The rubber band I purchased only protects from the spokes in the center and not on the side of the wheel.

[dougal]

I'm running Daytons and recently had to have a tube fitted due to a leak around a spoke.

This is the problem we have come across with tubeless wire wheels. i would suggest each time you have tyres changed the chances of having leakage round the spokes is increased.

Stainless steel spokes; i have seen a few broken ones. I have seen a few broken ones on very new wheels. The mix up with the Borrani Stainless steel spokes is that they have started making spoked wheels for modern cars, The spokes are considerably fatter, but also importantly; they are not bent. Rudge Whitworth wheels have a bend in the spoke as it comes out of the wheel centre.

You won't have problems fitting tubes in proper period tyres such as Michelin XVS or Pirelli Cinturato.

I would suggest using our rim tapes we have had some made without a join. And the Michelin tubes come with a French chalk coating which helps them cope with the inside of a tyre better.

There is no need for tubeless wheels unless, like our freind jag68, you have a highly modified car and or for competition use you want modern wide low profile tyres. Horses for courses[/img]