3.8 engine, correct clutch housing?

[Martinus]

Good morning guys,

i have a problem with the setting of starter, flywheel an d clutch housing and hope to get help from you.
A similar problem was discussed in an older thread but I'm not sure, what to do.

It is a full restoration of a 3.8 from 64. After mounting the engine I made the first attempt to start and there was only one metallic noise which sounds not good.
When I tried this further times, you only could here a click in the solenoid and nothing else.
At the end the starter (lucas/Bendix, first one...) was a little bit overheated and it seems, that it was fix with the flywheel. I made the starter free and disassembled it.

Now I'm wondering what is not correct and what to do. I know that it is important to work with a correct setting consisting of flywheel, starter and bellhousing.
But sorry and it annoys me, that i did not check the setting exactly and made a starting attempt to turn the engine before installing it.

First I checked the flywheel on the basis of photos when it was assembled. It looks like the 3.8 flywheel be comparing the photo in another topic, where there is the 3.8 on the right and the 4.2 on the left side. Another advice for this is the number on the flywheel which corresponds with the engine-number. Therefore it should be suitable with the 3.8 engine and the right one. I think it has 104 teeth then.
I don't know, if there are two different flywheels for the 3.8 are existing.

Somebody told me, that the problem will be the clutch housing which changes from 3.8 to 4.2 and perhaps a second time to series 2 and later cars. I don't know if this is correct, but I decided now to put off the complete engine and look for the correct clutch housing.

So, my question is now how to find the correct one. I also have to say, that the gearbox and the clutch housing were bought in seperate parts a series 2 syncro box (all 4-gear syncro boxes are equal?) and was mounted from a gear box specialist. He connected the box with the housing, too. No idea what sort of clutch housing it is. All parts fit well together and nothing pointed out that anything could be wrong.

Does anybpdy know, how one can see, which clutch housing is the right one when looking for a replacement? I think there are no signs or marks on them. The only advice I could find is, that the hosings from the later ones (series 2 and xj-saloons) don't have the little windows to see the flywheel.

Hope, that somebody has an idea,

Martin

[abowie]

No help to you now Martin but it's usual procedure to ensure that the starter works by testing it on the assembled engine and gearbox before putting the engine in the car.

[PeterCrespin]

If you have a bell which came with and fits a 4-synchro box it is probably a 4.2 bell and the cause of your problem. It 'could' be a modified 3.8 and the starter bulges look slightly different (3.8 Bendix will fit 4.2 bell but 4.2 inertia nose is too fat for most smaller-engined bells). So you may need either a known 3.8 bell or a 4.2 flywheel and starter? Perhaps whichever you find first?

[64etype]

No help to you now Martin but it's usual procedure to ensure that the starter works by testing it on the assembled engine and gearbox before putting the engine in the car.

The 3.8 flywheel did come in two versions....the early ones had a single bolt circle for the 10 inch clutch, and the later version was drilled for either the 10 inch clutch or the 9.5 inch clutch as used on the 4.2. But the tooth count was the same for both.

Regarding the all synchro transmissions, there were two basic versions...the close ratio EJ, and the KE. A KJS was apparently available for the later 2+2, but I don't know the specifics. All of them bolted up to the 4.2 bellhousing (same throughout the years). The all-synchro transmission can be mounted to the 3.8 bellhousing if the mating interface on the bellhousing is machined to accept the larger mounting flange on the synchro transmission. If your gear box specialist did not have to machine the bellhousing to accept the synchro transmission, then it is a 4.2 bellhousing. And if you have confirmed that the flywheel is from a 3.8, then you have a mismatch.

[tinworm]

You can use a 2.8 XJ6 gearbox bellhousing (and I think 3.8 S-type) which used the all synchro gearbox but retained the inertia starter as used on the 3.8 E type - so you can couple the earlier engine with the later gearbox without having to machine anything.

regards Barrie

[Martinus]

Thank you all so much for your answers and the options I may have now.

First I will ask the gearbox mechanic if he has an original 3.8 bell in stock and if then he is able to machine it for my synchro transmission.

Second opportunity may be the alternative with a 2.8 xj6 or s-type bell.
@ Barrie: You are sure that works? Do you have any advices to distinguish this bell from the others?

If that does not work I'll probably change to a 4.2 flywheel with a suitable starter.

A nice sunday and kind regards

Martin

[tinworm]

Hello Martin, yes this is correct information - my car is fitted with one that I sourced from a 2.8 Xj6 . This is not my idea alone - it is well known amongst Jaguar people. As to identification I should have taken a photo of it as it looks very like the 4.2 version . Anyone got any measurements for Martin ?

regards Barrie

[64etype]

Lots of talk on Jag Lovers about machining the 3.8 bellhousing...hadn't seen anything about the 2.8 XJ6 possibility. Good option, although I suspect they're scarce in the U.S. In any case it's clear this means I'm not a real Jaguar people.

[PeterCrespin]

They were never imported. Same as the later 3.4 Series 3 XJ or the 3.2 XJ40/X300/X308 was never sent to the USA. But then no manuals of any jag were imported by them after about 1979 bar a few six cylinder XJS cars.