Timing cover oil seal replacement

[Markymark]

Hi Guys,
I've recently become the proud owner of a '69 OTS in primrose. I've imported it from the USA and it seems very solid.
I'm taking care of a few jobs before I get it on the road. The water pump is leaking so I've got that off the car at the moment and I'm now thinking about changing the front crank oil seal whilst I'm at it. It's leaking quite badly.
I was wondering whether I need to remove the sump? Or can the timing cover be removed with the sump in place?
Any other jobs I should consider whilst I've got the cover off?
Thanks,
Mark

[abowie]

Sump, timing cover and head all need to come off.

The seal sits in a groove cast into both the sump and the timing cover. The top of the timing cover sits under the head gasket at the front. While it is possible to remove the timing cover without disturbing the head gasket in a newly build engine (I have done this twice) I doubt you'd have much success on one that has been running. This shows the groove in the timing cover (and the seal on backwards, don't ask...)



I have heard of a method of seal replacement whereby a tube saw is used to cut away the front lip of the groove in both timing cover and sump. I have never seen this done.

I assume that the (correctly sized) tube saw is passed over the crank from the front and the metal cut away. This I believe leaves a small portion of the lip intact but allows the old seal to be prised out and a new one fitted. I'm not sure if the sump needs to be loosened to fit the new seal or not. To my mind the dimensions of this saw would have to be very exact or the new seal could come loose.

The other issue that is that the seal distance piece (aka seal runner) would usually be replaced at the same time as the seal, as its surface condition is critical to correct functioning of the seal. I have not tried to do this with the timing cover and sump intact but it might be quite difficult.

[abowie]

As to what you might do with the timing cover off. You could give consideration to changing the chains, the tensioner and the chain guides. If you take the head off checking the valve seats and shimming are worth doing. With the sump off you could have a look at a bearing shell or two....aaarrrgh it's endless!!!

The one good thing is that you can pull the head and sump with the engine in the car. If you remove the bonnet and radiator you will have quite reasonable access. http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/t ... etoff.html

[PeterCrespin]

If your cover looks like Andrew's it will be harder work but a 69 may be cutaway slightly wider around the seal near the sump joint. If so, once you pull the spacer out the seal can be dropped out of its groove and slid off the crank and a new one fitted in reverse fashion. So sump off certainly, timing cover or head, not necessarily (or not at all if you are prepared to trim the edges of the seal groove if it's Andrew's earlier type.

Be sure to seal the spacer onto the crank as oil can leak that way. Later kits have an o-ring seal spacer but you have to take the thrower off which needs cover removal by double-nutting the top studs and sliding it off.

Pete

[abowie]

If your cover looks like Andrew's it will be harder work but a 69 may be cutaway slightly wider around the seal near the sump joint.
Pete

I didn't realise the E's had the shallower groove, I thought it only came in on the XJ6's. When did it change on the E Types Peter?

I've just bought a 67 Series 1 which leaks like a sieve from the front...

[PeterCrespin]

The XJ came out in 68 so I said 'may be...' FWIW I *think* the change was near a Series 2 XJ thing in the very early 70s. It's only shallower at the ends, so the hole instead of being a perfect semi-circle is wider on the bottom third or so where it blends into the sump joint face. It doesn't need to be (and shouldn't be cut to be) shallower all the way round as a larger semi-circle because the central spacer holds it in engagement and you only need the groove to be shallow so it can come out when it drops out of the groove after you pull the spacer off with the sump removed.

Pete

[Markymark]

Thanks for the replies. I don't fancy trimming any metal, so I guess I'll get the sump off and have a look. Don't fancy taking the head off either to be honest.....might just have to put up with the leak.....

[Markymark]

One other thing. Does anyone know what size the bolt is that holds the damper onto the crank? It's bigger than 1.25inch which is my largest socket so need to buy one....
Thanks,
Mark

[Ropariva]

I suspect the socket you are after is either 1-19/64" or 1-9/32" though like yourself my set topped out well under the required size. I did manage to find a dreaded metric 33mm socket that fitted very snugly.
About to explore the requirements for replacing the front seal myself. Good luck

[JD-JAG66]

Hoping that a request on a 2014 post still draws some attention?
I need to replace the front timing cover seal on my series 3 XJ6 engine fitted to my 66 E type.
I require obviously the seal C24611, which costs £5,48 from SNG.
The £32,33 from David Manners is, at least according to the pictures, the teflon version. Which, if I understood the other posts on this forum correctly, I do not fancy fitting since I read several comments about the complexities of fitting it.

However, apart from the seal, which other parts should I consider buying?
Obviously a new sump seal, since I will (attempt) to fit it with taking of only the sump.
But since I would prefer to have all parts at hand (Crankshaft woodruff keys? ...) when I drop the sump, any suggestions would be welcome.

[chrisfell]

If memory serves the crank nut is 1 5/16.