205 tyres

[Heuer]

All 185's are specified for 5", 5.5" and 6" wheels. Fitting them to wider wheels stiffens the side walls which improves steering at the expense of ride comfort, but the differences are very small. Please report back with before/after impressions so others can make a judgement without having the benefit of experience. The extra 1" of ride height will also be welcome on undulating roads and the mad speed bumps in French villages!

[gb2601]

Hi David,

after reading your impressions on the 185 compared with the 205 I am very tempted to give it a try. Hopefully I can find a Club member with this setup or I will take the 185 off the MK2 and try them on the E-Type for a short ride.

Since I have 6.5" wide rims on the E I guess that 185 tyres will not fit or do they?

Regards, George

[Heuer]

I think 6" is the maximum width, certainly for Michelin XVS. I would check with your tyre supplier before trying it.

[vipergts]

I have 2 series 1 Etypes, one with 185 XVX's and the other with sticky 205 Avons

I have to say that for general hooning around I prefer the 205's.. especially after the XVX's sent me sideways on saturday.

[andrewh]

I realise this is a hot potato and there are long engrained opinions on here about the merits of the different tyres. I run 205/70 Avon CRZ the same as Lees and incidently the chosen tyre by the professional driver used to do the top speed test in Octane this month in VHP1. First off, a confession, I have not driven a series one E on 185 s in anger and it was a long time ago so perhaps I do not know what I am missing. However, it is simply incorrect to say that 205s do not suit the car....who says? My car handles superbly and feels as sure footed as any modern car, and I am running Konis which also suit the car very well. The steering is NOT too heavy ....try driving a DB5 if you want heavy. I appreciate that Norman Dewis did thousands of miles, but tyre technology, road conditions and umpteen other variables have changed since then. I once met Roy Salvadori at Goodwood standing on the pit wall. He commented that the same cars were doing laps in 10 to 15 seconds quicker than in period largely down to tyre technology.
I am sticking with my Avon 205s, they suit the car and look great .

[christopher storey]

Well, you are correct : if you have not driven an E on 185s you are missing a great deal. It is nothing to do with roadholding ( which is what I think too many correspondents in this discussion mean by handling ) . I am sure you are correct that 185s will not ultimately provide as much grip as 205s. What it is about is the feel and sensitivity of the steering of the car , and having owned one E type which I ran on 205s for about 5 years, subsequently running it on 185s ever since for about 18 years, and another E which I have always had on 185s for about 19 years, I can say that there is no comparison at all between the two sizes. With 205s , Es feel lumpen and insensitive . With 185s , they have an ability to steer with exceptional accuracy ( the best of any of the 75 cars I have owned ) using if desired two fingers ( no joke intended ) on the wheel . One of the problems is that 205s are not merely wider ; they also alter quite significantly the steering geometry of the car, and it is this as much as anything which wrecks the feel of the steering

[44DHR]

OK you got me going again !! I have sat here patiently reading this thread refusing to bite at the challenge, but I now have to comment !!

I run new Pirelli 205/70 tyres on my Series 1 because I choose to and primarily for the looks - as one thing I don't like is the look of the standard skinny tyres and a great empty wheel arch on any car. As with a few of my other cars, I have also lowered my car because I prefer that look - shock horror to all those purists !!

I don't spend too much time in Pub talk with armchair experts and sitting in fields at Concours events cleaning the grass out of my 30 year old hardened rubber 185 crossplies with a toothbrush - but they say these are original so they are better apparently - whatever turns you on. I choose to drive my E type many thousands of miles on several long Continental trips, such as down to Monaco and Italy, as recorded on this forum, using and enjoying what the car means to me. Even with my modified 7 pinion steering rack and my 205 tyres, in the trips up and down the Swiss mountains I still had "the ability to steer" and remain in control. I also have other modern high performance cars and have held my MSA race licence for well over 20 years and enjoyed competitive success in all manner of race cars - from historic to modern - so I do have some understanding of car control and handling. Yes, I have driven E types with 185 tyres, but they don't suit my preferences and ability.

I fully understand the well made comments about the E type suspension design and the effect and profile of modern tyres, but come on chaps we are talking about some rather special old road registered cars being driven on the public road in the manner that individual owners prefer. People may have the perception that are fully on the limit, (this is on public roads by the way) and enjoying the finesse and sensitivity of their car, but with my driving experiences - both on and off the road - I personally don't feel I am "missing out a great deal" or my "steering is wrecked" with my tyre choice on my road registered E type.

God forbid we all drove identical cars on identical tyres - hopefully that is why we love these cars in the first place and don't accept the marketing spiel portraying the "wonders" of today's Eurobox offerings. We all have our opinions, but using 205 tyres on an E type does not render it unusable - as some may portray - and there are plenty of satisfied users who fully use their cars to support this choice.

Stands back for the flak !!

Cheers,

Dave

:D :D

[christopher storey]

I don't think anyone has said that 205s make an E unusable . What is said, however, and I along with David Jones perhaps say it most often at risk of boring people, is that 205s change the character of the car out of all proportion to the apparently small nature of the change. Now I do not drive in the way that you do, apparently, and my driving style would best be described as pedestrian, but one of the things I found immediately on changing to 185s was that a car which previously was only enjoyable when giving it some hammer, now became a wonderfully tactile experience even at pedestrian speeds , like driving in heavy traffic , or along country lanes , at 30 - 40 mph. As that second most famous Belgian ( after Hercule Poirot ) Peter Crespin would no doubt say , chacun a son gout - can't do the grave accent I'm afraid

PS I never said " wrecks the steering " . I said "wrecks the feel of the steering" and that is quite a different matter !

[Heuer]

No flak Dave, however your car is modified and you use it for track days as well as enthusiastic road driving. For the majority of owners who want to savour the experience of driving a 1960's classic car as intended they can do so safely and enjoyably with 185 tyres. There is no 'better' tyre just a choice of driving experience.

[44DHR]

Well moderated David.

I am in complete agreement !!

regards,

Dave

[Gfhug]

What we need is a Forum set of wheels and tyres, or rather two sets. One with 185s fitted the other with 205s. Then we could rent them to try out the differences.
The ever inflating (forgive the pun) price of the Michelin tyres, about 10% in the last 12 months, doesn't encourage giving an alternative size a try out.

[Heuer]

Pirelli Cinturatos are superb and others here swear by Blockley's and Vredstein. All available in 185 size and a range of prices to suit most.

[andrewh]

I would remind the readers of this thread that the car was originally designed and signed off by Norman for a Crossply, not a 185 Radial, a somewhat different tyre in itself! :D

Its also true to say that Jaguar were aiming for the lightest steering possible for the U.S. market. Hence the 185 and when they did concede to the Larger tyres on the V12 in came PAS

[vipergts]

BTW......What do we think pressures work best at?

205 obvs

[Heuer]

For me:
32/32 205's
30/35 185's

Norman did sign off on radials - there is Service Bulletin about them, including suggested pressure's. Cross plies were great on British roads because we had no long fast roads like they did on the Continent and the USA. The problem with cross plies is they heat up very quickly if driven fast for a long time and straight line stability is poor. Fitting them to an E-Type today and going on a Motorway or dual carriageway will be most uncomfortable for driver and passenger. Source: Dougal 8)

[andrewh]

The difference is huge, ask Angus. I have been on at him for years to dump the 205's for 185's and he only got around to it this year. He was stunned by the improvement and now only fits 185's on all his restorations refusing to have new 205's in the workshop. The reason is quite simple. The E-Type does not have variable camber steering like modern cars. Modern tyres have built up shoulders (they are square in section compared to the round of period tyres) to help keep more rubber in contact with the road and restore self centring. Putting modern 205's on the E-Type immediately causes the steering to weigh up and those square shoulders mean it will break away without warning if pushed too hard. They also cause tram-lining at speed. Norman Dewis did 1,000,000 miles of testing and did not suggest moving away from 185 tyres on the E-Type, at least until the S3. And that had power steering to compensate. A well driven E-Type with 185's would easily leave a 205 equipped car on a country road. I am about 5mph quicker with 185's than I was with 205's across some of my favourite routes.

As for the LWE's they were designed specifically for the race track in the hands of professional race drivers who had the advantage of constant practice and no vehicles coming the other way!

Just reading this again thinking about tyres and I wanted to understand your assertion about E types not having variable camber . Unless I am missing something David, and I probably am. Is not the effect of Castor angle on camber a variable camber angle ? My very hazy recollection of Ackerman principle is that as the car Corners the camber reduces from the negative towards the positive to aid self centring of the steering. If camber was fixed you would drive around in circles with your hands off the steering wheel whilst accelerating would you not?

[Dave K]

I need some tyres to replace my aging (about 12 years old) Pirelli 205 70 15 tyres. They are P4000. I want to get the same but they are no longer available.
I have Pirelli P5000 on the rear and don't really want odd tyres on the front.

A plea, I really don't want to get into the you should only fit 185's story just where I can get new Pirelli equivalents. I've tried searching online but the only Pirelli tyres I can find in the right size are Pirelli carrier which are van tyres.

TIA
Dave

[gtjoey]

Dave if you have the budget , THE MICHELIN XWX transforms the car to at least the 1990s!
IMHO and doing thousands and thousands of miles a year.
They are 400 a tire but .........
Pirellis are good but not great in cold and seem to flat spot till warmedup.
gtjoey1314

[bitsobrits]

Agreed that the XWX are transformative. Period perfect rounded shoulder suits the F/R camber curves of the E. Very expensive, but you will likely age them out before you wear them out (given the miles most of these machines do a year) so the price per year isn't too awfully bad. And they look the business as well.

[mgcjag]

Hi Dave...here you go... https://www.vintagetyres.com/shop/tyres ... 5-90w-1058 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/205-70 ... li-p5.html