New S2 2+2 purchase - Advice required

nottsman · Post by **nottsman** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:16 pm

Hi all, I'm a new member contemplating my first e type purchase and the more I research and talk to people, the more confused I get.

I've set my budget between ?18-?25k to find a decent runner for me to enjoy and keep - this is not an investment! I keep hunting through the internet and get disheartened by some of the outrageous prices that people are asking, especially for some tatty examples.

I live near Newark, Notts and have been to see a primrose yellow 1969 series 2 2+2 advertised on ebay (see link below).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-E-Type ... SwA4dWKQnZ

The car has a few bodywork issues and the doors do not fit flush when closed and are slightly proud of the rear panels on both sides. It has had a poor quality respray in the past. The interior is a bit tired and could do with some TLC. Underneath is sound and the car has had upgrade work carried out on the rear sub frame, axle and brakes. The car is a US import and has had a RHD conversion, albeit the indicator stalk is still on the left side of the steering wheel. The car now has 3 SU carbs, upgraded fans and new throttle linkage. The engine has been re-skimmed.

The throttle pedal looks bespoke. It still has the original auto gearbox and the chrome is pretty good. Some of the rubber seals around the windows need replacing.

It has a heritage cert and the numbers match as does the primrose yellow colour.

My wife is not keen on the colour (maybe THE deciding factor!) and is concerned about the doors not fitting flush. I spoke to Butlin & Sons classic cars who do know the car and asked about condition etc. They say that it is mechanically sound and the RHD conversion is fine. The doors can be sorted at the time of a respray and have given me a budget of around ?7k for body only and ?15k for a full respray incl. under the bonnet and engine compartment. This would allow me to choose a different colour.

I also spoke to another garage near to me who quoted ?50k for a bare metal respray and also advised me against buying the car because of the level and unknown work and cost involved. Also they were very derogatory about it being a US import, RHD conversion and having the original auto box. They made a point of saying that the US auto gearbox on these cars couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

So, I am confused by all of this info and advice from folk. On the one hand, I'm not concerned about it being a US import, nor am I concerned about the RHD conversion and I do think it is a nice car that I could enjoy and improve for a couple of years before having a respray and pleasing my wife.

However is my heart ruling my head and is my local garage right and I should leave well alone.

Please have a look at the car on ebay and let me know your thoughts on if you guys think it is an okay buy or not. The car is advertised for ?28k and I maybe prepared to go to ?23k.

Post by **mgcjag** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:19 pm

Hi ...you don't mention your name.........looking at the photos you need to be very weary, it could be hiding a multitude of of problems under the paintwork...as a minimum you need to have someone who knows Es to look it over...especially at the known major rust points...you already know it will cost a minimum of ?15k to bring up to scratch but I think it will be a lot more...personally I would take your current budget and add the costs as above to it and then take your time to find one....look at as many as poss.....This is up for auction soon as an example....haven't seen it but worth looking at http://classiccars.brightwells.com/view ... hp?id=6113

Good luck Steve

neil4444 · Post by **neil4444** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:29 pm

The 2nd quote may well be nearer the mark. They're absolutely right - you just don't know what you're going to find underneath. The 'restoration' looks to have been done very poorly - micro blistering, painting over bubbling rust, what looks like fairly deep filler that's cracked in the drivers door, etc. On that basis I would expect to find other issues elsewhere. Main concern would be overall integrity of the body (any issues with door fit could suggest problems here) & condition of engine frames (which are known to rot from inside out). You state that it's sound underneath, but how do you know ?

Also the colour can be a bit marmite. I'd suggest there are better cars out there for the money - or at least more honest ones !

I don't want to rain on the parade, but I would seriously recommend an inspection at very least.

HTH,

nottsman · Post by **nottsman** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:43 pm

Sorry, my name is Nick.

And thanks to you both for your replies so far. I would rather hear and take sound advice now before parting with my hard earned cash even if it does mean that I have to wait to find the right car!

Nick

neil4444 · Post by **neil4444** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:14 pm

Hi Nick,

Welcome to the forum.

It would also be worth contacting Angus Moss at e-conic
http://www.e-conic.net/

Angus (1954Etype) is a moderator & regular contributor on this forum and is often able to source good quality project cars.

Regards,

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:33 am

Nick : the garage which advised about the automatic gearbox hasn't the faintest idea what they are talking about. In the first place, there was no "US" automatic gearbox - all the cars , whether European or US spec, had the same box , and as autos go, there is nothing wrong with the box at all, and the performance is perfectly good even by today's standards . However, a US spec , L to R , auto 2+2 is absolutely at the bottom of the pile as far as price is concerned , and ?28K for this one with obviously expensive paint/metalwork issues is way, way over the top. I have seen better cars than this go at auction for less than 10K, although that is rare now, and a bracket of perhaps 12 to 15K would be expected for this now if you could get anyone to bid at all . Just another point : door fit is always a problem if seals have been replaced, so this is not something which I would regard as of great significance . However, for all the reasons others have stated , this definitely looks to be one best avoided

Robert Hiland · Post by **Robert Hiland** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:04 am

I would definitely stay away from this one.

Go to www.JCNA.com, go to the Concours link and then click on the E Type Series 2 Judging Guidelines to see what has been done to the car.

From the pictures I can see that:
-the head has been replaced with a Series 1 version (which explains the 3 SU carbs)
-two brake fluid bottles seem to be missing
-the coil is in the wrong place
-paint job is shoddy
-body work very questionable

... I would expect that you might find more problems upon inspection.

2+2s do not command the price of roadsters and coupes so be cautious about what you might have to spend bring the car up to your standards.

Bob

malcolm · Post by **malcolm** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:37 am

As a 2+2 owner, I agree with the above. Without wishing to sound boastful, my 1969 2+2 is not concours, but not a million miles off. It's certainly A1, with excellent body and mechanics, RHD manual and matching numbers UK car. Here it is to give you an Idea -

My car is valued as is for ?35k

So add the cost of your repairs to the purchase price??

nottsman · Post by **nottsman** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:02 am

Very nice car and is exactly what I would like to end up.

I don't have the budget to buy A1 outright and was hoping to find a good solid runner that needs some restoration work that I can carry out as and when I can afford it.

Prices are very confusing and you see lhd rust buckets from the USA for ?20k+ and ?60k+ for UK cars. Are these cars worth it or are people/dealers trying it on or trying to recoup the restoration costs regardless of actual market value?

Nick

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:43 am

The best advice is to buy a rot free car. Most restoration costs can go into reconstruction of a rotten shell.

Try and buy a car that is complete and hasn't been repainted (unless done properly) and needs trimming and rubber replacement.

We find that US imports are some of the best ones to buy as converting to RHD is relatively simple.

All that tosh about 50k for a respray, US spec auto should be disregarded completely.

nottsman · Post by **nottsman** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:43 pm

Thanks Angus. Any tips on where I should be looking to find such a car?

Nick

neil4444 · Post by **neil4444** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:55 pm

Hi Nick,

Here are 2 sellers I monitor:

USA:
http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/inventory.htm

Holland:
http://www.erclassics.com/jaguar-classi ... ale-29.php

Plus the usuals:

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars

And of course ebay (all countries) - I noticed there's a new project on there since this morning if you're brave. Probably similar condition to the primrose one you mentioned but without the respray...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1969-Jaguar-E ... Swl9BWIoGb

Post by **mgcjag** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:56 pm

Hi Nick.....Angus probably won't promote himself but he si the man to find you one..look at his site here.. Steve http://www.mossjaguar.com/e-type-life.html

neil4444 · Post by **neil4444** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:57 pm

And of course just googling which is how I found my 2 FHC projects this year.

Post by **1954Etype** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:22 pm

Thanks for your kind comments guys! The only advice l can give is to keep scouring the ads and keep doing your home work. You are more than welcome to come and see an original S2 2+2 we have just acquired for a customer.

carlgaywood · Post by **carlgaywood** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:42 pm

Hi Nick,
I'm probably the least qualified person on this forum to give you advice but I'd like to try anyway!

I found the follow books really helpful

( details all the changes made to each model and any differences by market. )

Carl

nottsman · Post by **nottsman** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:14 pm

Cheers Carl. And thanks to all who have helped by offering advice and words of wisdom.

My quest continues and I will let you all know when I have success!

If anyone hears wind of a car for sale, please let me know.

Nick

David Oslo · Post by **David Oslo** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:08 pm

neil4444 wrote: And of course ebay (all countries) - I noticed there's a new project on there since this morning if you're brave. Probably similar condition to the primrose one you mentioned but without the respray...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1969-Jaguar-E ... Swl9BWIoGb

This one doesn't look all that bad, I've seen much worse for much more money. Seems to be honest, and not fillered and resprayed (which can hide so much). Seems to be original paint, and it's just weatherbeat and worn. And if the price is correct at ?13 BIN then this at the levels we were seeing stateside at least a year ago, if not longer. Beverly Hills CC (of which this would be a typical sales object) would price this much higher.

So if I was in the mood for a project car I would certainly investigate this more, contact the seller, get more pictures, ask for specific picture so that you know the guy actually has the car on hand.

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New S2 2+2 purchase - Advice required

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