cooling and waterpump pulley misalignment problems

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:50 pm

Pete

My point is all the various suppliers show the sleeved thermostat part numbers as superseding to the wrong type of unit. e.g:
http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... 4fe1be01af
http://xks.com/i-7080967-co-27650-therm ... s-74c.html
http://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/british- ... t-468.html (albeit wrongly described as for an MGB)

The sleeved thermostat sold by SNGB has a totally different part number (#C3731/1 is for an XK140) and is, it seems, a different size to original E-Type anyway. So if you want to buy a thermostat for any S1 engine you are steered towards the inappropriate one every time! The only true alternative seems to be the Wat-Jag version which requires some machining to the housing. Ken Jenkins also sells sleeved thermostats but I believe they also are the smaller sized ones. My guess is 90% of S1 E-Type's on the road have the wrong thermostat!

iani · Post by **iani** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:56 pm

What about this TR2 'stat David, any good?

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-107590

Ian

ralphr1780 · Post by **ralphr1780** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:55 pm

I have two 3.8 manifolds with their carbs, one that came with the engine of my S1 3.8 and one that I bought separately to fit on my S2 4.2.
So surely this evening will pop open both to check thermostats, easy to do as still dry. Will take also measurements.
Few years back a business fellow had a white FHC 3.8 and was constantly complaining of slight overheating in traffic because of poor/slow hot water circulation to the radiator. He decided it was time to replace the thermostat with a modern one just before taking a tour to the French Alps. Fuel economy in terms of MPG was excellent, because the car returned on a flat bed with a blown head... Expensive lesson it was.

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:05 pm

Ian

The Rimmer brothers one would work in an early 3.8 with a 4psi coolant system but not in the 9psi of the later S1 3.8 and 4.2 engines. The bellows stats rely on alcohol to evaporate and move the sleeve but the pressure they produce cannot resist that of the uprated cooling system. Hence you need to look for:

1. a wax operated sleeved thermostat (waxstat)
2. a waxstat with a sleeve diameter of 48mm and 15mm depth

64etype · Post by **64etype** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:08 pm

Observation. I noticed that the size of the bypass slit in the photo near the top of page 5 appears to be much larger than for the one on the bottom of page 4, which looks like the one in my 3.8....

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:03 pm

Yes, I think that photo is of a XK140 manifold but it was the only one I could find which clearly showed the relationship between slot and 'stat. If anyone has a photo of the 3.8 manifold and stat together I would appreciate having it. Hopefully Yves will be able to supply some good photos when he receives his #C3731/1 from SNGB.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:20 pm

Heuer wrote:Pete

My point is all the various suppliers show the sleeved thermostat part numbers as superseding to the wrong type of unit.
....Ken Jenkins also sells sleeved thermostats but I believe they also are the smaller sized ones. My guess is 90% of S1 E-Type's on the road have the wrong thermostat!

Hell's teeth! What do you run? What does Angus run, or Rory, or CMC or Eagle, etc. ? It's not ultra-ultra critical, especially in temperate climates, but the idea that every chuffin' S1 is running a poppet tstat is crazy. I only ever owned three and all were non-runners at the time or I'd have sussed this out donkey's years ago. No wonder people think it's a revelation, if every supplier points to the wrong part. I think I'd buy an SNBG one and make up a stepped sleeve to slip over the existing slightly too narrow and too short one (assuming Derek Watson is right).

I'm still stunned to think every S1 driver has the wrong tstat. Can't be right, surely?

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:45 pm

I'm pretty sure my OTS has covered 55,000 miles up Alpine pass and down dale with the 'wrong' stat. Not checked the FHC as yet, which is running a 4psi system, but I need to drain the coolant to fit some original stop cocks (handle snapped on the repro one

) so I will check it then. Too cold to be mucking about with water at the moment but I have never bothered to check the stat type before other than temp rating. I assumed if I ordered one from the usuals I would get the correct fitting part even if it was a supercession number.

64etype · Post by **64etype** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:02 pm

PeterCrespin wrote:
Heuer wrote:Pete

I think I'd buy an SNBG one and make up a stepped sleeve to slip over the existing slightly too narrow and too short one (assuming Derek Watson is right).

I'm still stunned to think every S1 driver has the wrong tstat. Can't be right, surely?

Dollars to donuts the number is very high.

As a contingency, I've been thinking about possible modification of the "plunger" style thermostat (the one with the little disk) that is sitting on the shelf. Also reconsidering a blocking sleeve or a restrictor in the bypass circuit, given the hot climate where the car resides. If the SNG offering is the incorrect dimensions and bypasses water, what's the difference....other than initial warm up...

Polse7317 · Post by **Polse7317** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:51 pm

Peter, i have noticed your advice.Thanks

ralphr1780 · Post by **ralphr1780** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:58 pm

Have just checked the two manifolds and both sadly show a common replacement thermostat (160F).
The bypass slot is 3mm wide and located at about 14mm depth, inner housing diameter is about 49.60mm (surface lightly covered with rust).
So a thermostat with bellow of 48mm would move freely and when open would sucessfully restrict flow into the bypass.
However, as evidently surface rust and light crud would develop with time, guessing that the original 48mm bellow type could remain stuck in open or closed position, reason for the change?
Curious to learn about other fellows findings...

Polse7317 · Post by **Polse7317** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:47 pm

So you have thermostats without sleeve?

Post by **mgcjag** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:04 pm

Hi All ..found this good write up re the different types of thermostats for E types well worth the read http://georgiajag.com/Documents/Thermostats.html

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:06 pm

ralphr1780 wrote:Have just checked the two manifolds and both sadly show a common replacement thermostat (160F).

That would be correct for the 69 at least Ralph, unless it's a US import converted to triples and with no S2 thermostat housing fitted? There would have been one on the Strangleberg setup. Maybe you still have it

ralphr1780 · Post by **ralphr1780** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:53 pm

Correct Yves, two thermostats without sleeve (bellow).

Peter, one manifold is fitted on the 3.8 of my S1, the second one is coming from a 3.8 as well and intended for my 4.2 S2 but not yet fitted.
I did not yet start the 3.8 S1 engine, expected sometime next summer, yet busy with all the rest.

Post by **Heuer** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:42 pm

I am working with Julian Barratt to get a practical solution to all this and only one point remains an issue - the dimensions of the by-pass slot on the S1 3.8 and 4.2 cars. Julian thinks there may be some variation so we need measurements. If anyone has a manifold that can be accessed please provide some measurements to confirm what Ralph found?

Ralph says: "The bypass slot is 3mm (1/8") wide and located at about 14mm (1/2") depth, inner housing diameter is about 49.60mm (1 7/8")" I added the nearest imperial equivalent because Jaguar would have not used metric tooling back then.

Incidentally this is what Jaguar had to say about Thermostats:

Source: Jaguar Tuning & Preparation for Racing Guide

64etype · Post by **64etype** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:53 pm

I got the same for slot size and location for '64 3.8 (top of slot @ 1/2" measured from cover mount surface. I got 1.95" for diameter, but there's a little corrosion in there. Depth of the hole is 1.8".

Thanks for that Jaguar note regarding blocking the bypass. Good interim approach where ouside air temperatures are warm/hot year 'round. I recall an old timer here in Texas recommending this seven or eight years ago when I unstrapped the bare chassis from the ceiling in my garage and started reassembly.

I noted on J-L that you mentioned SNG has blanking sleeve/plate. The only thing I can find on U.S. and UK SNG sites is the blanking plate for the redundant choke hole....wonder if Julian was thinking of that...

mooney1el · Post by **mooney1el** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:10 pm

I measured my '64, 3.8 and got essentially the same numbers.

Top of slot is .530" down from gasket surface
Bottom of slot is .640" down from gasket surface
Slot is therefore .110" wide

Bottom of housing is 1.785" from gasket surface

Offset for thermostat is .035" deep

Inside diameter is 1.980"

Offset for thermostat is .086 wide

265bhp · Post by **265bhp** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:41 pm

Hi David

More of the same figures for my 63 FHC US car

Slot 4mm, set 13m inboard of the slightly recessed outer lip, internal diameter 50mm

Jonathan

Polse7317 · Post by **Polse7317** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:09 pm

Here is what i have on my car: (1963 fhc )

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cooling and waterpump pulley misalignment problems

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