5 speed gearbox

[jimwood]

Hi there,
I am rebuilding the engine of my 4.2, 2 + 2 E-Type and want to fit a 5 speed gearbox as part of the project. Can anyone offer any suggestions and experience of which one to go for please? Obviously would like one that will cause the least hassle and hopefully go straight in.

[Heuer]

There are several threads here on the various contenders - Getrag, JT5, T5, ETF and the E-Type UK box. Personally my first call would be to Harry at E-Type UK and I speak having driven them all.

[daverawle]

Hi there,
I am rebuilding the engine of my 4.2, 2 + 2 E-Type and want to fit a 5 speed gearbox as part of the project. Can anyone offer any suggestions and experience of which one to go for please? Obviously would like one that will cause the least hassle and hopefully go straight in.

I'm a bit out of my depth here but being a it's 2+2 I think you can use a Jag overdrive box, maybe someone with first hand knowledge can comment.

Dave

[Heuer]

Yup - you can use a 4 speed Jaguar box with overdrive from one of the XJ6 saloons. It is usually referred to as the MOD conversion.

More info here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=334 and here: http://www.mraven.com/Jaguar%20E-type/E ... speed.html

[tom-e]

Personally my first call would be to Harry at E-Type UK and I speak having driven them all

David
Could you please explain the reason for your preference?
I too am in the market for a 5 speed conversion for my 4.2 coupe and I would value your opinon and judgement greatly
Many thanks
Tom

[Heuer]

Tom

You will see from the various threads the choice of gearbox is down to personal preference, motivation, driving style, diff ratio and the use you intend to put the car to. Ideally you need to drive a 5 speed car so you can understand what you will be getting.

Starting point is to consider a box with ratios similar to the four speed in your car with the advantage of an extra gear for cruising. Typically this will give you a 20% drop in revs and is great for touring. If you intend to drive your car mainly on local roads you are unlikely to see much benefit though. The closest match to the Jaguar box is probably the JT5 from Medatronics. This has an established reputation from a no compromise supplier but it does mean having the box shipped over from the US and you will have some difficulty finding one to test drive. Not sure what the availability and delivery times are like. Dave Rawle has one so PM him for more details

Harry at E-Type UK has done considerable work to make the Broadsport box a good match for the E-Type. This box is well established in the XK world and is based on the Cosworth MT75. It has the advantage of you being able to test drive a car (although every time Harry installs one someone buys the car from under him!) and they are available off the shelf for home fitting or Harry can do it for you in a day. There is a thread here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0 detailing Rob's experiences and I am due to have a drive in one soon with the new uprated gear change. I drove an early development car and the ratios are good with a nice spread allowing you to make more of the gears available on the twisty bits.

I have a Watjag T5 but it has been problematic, the Getrag is 'agricultural' and the ETF box is still under development. So you have a choice of two, one of which you can test drive. Definitely worth investing the time to visit E-Type UK and see what you think as it is the most different of the two from what you already have.

[aussieseries2dhc]

Yup - you can use a 4 speed Jaguar box with overdrive from one of the XJ6 saloons. It is usually referred to as the MOD conversion.

More info here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=334 and here: http://www.mraven.com/Jaguar%20E-type/E ... speed.html

For what it is worth, I installed a 4 speed with o/d out of a Mark 2 in a previous series 1 1/2 4.2 etype fhc and found that the o/d clutch kept slipping/burning out at speeds greater than 100mph.- I was running a 3.07 diff, so maybe a bit too high geared. Gave great mpg at 70 mph.

I also found that cutting the chassis to install the rear mounting plate for the o/d box, even with stiffening plates underneath led to body creak going over a stepped surface.

I would recommend a 5 speed box of whatever type you chose with 5th being effectively overdrive, so do not encounter the possible 'challenges' I have described.

I now have a series 2 dhc to which I am fitting the new CJ5/600. The crashing US dollar against the aussie makes cost more palatable.

I am sure that Dr Bernake takes nightly calls from Dr Gono of Zimbabwe as to how to print more money!- OTT

If it goes as well as it looks, and looks better in real life than photos, should be a great box.

I am resisting the urge to use the gearbox as a coffee table base a la top gear engine coffee table.

It seems a pity to cover the gearbox up as once installed, it will never see the light of day unless have a polycarbonate perspex transmission cover!

regards and apologies for the rambling.
john

[Larry Wade]

There have been many discussions on this topic on the E-type forum.
http://forums.jag-lovers.org/index.php3 ... LHCQCYx7gN
or
http://tinyurl.com/2djzt

The US consensus is that the JT5 is the best of the US available boxes. It is by far the most thoroughly tested, and most commonly used, E-type specific five speed in the world. I've never heard or read a complaint. Ever. With over 3,000 on the street that is the strongest recommendation possible. Relevant to your needs: they have one specifically for the 2+2.
http://www.5speeds.com/6cyl22kit.html

The only other 5 speed that I would consider is the E-type Fabs one. While new, every report so far has been stellar. It also has the virtue (for you) of being a UK supplier. I don't know if their box is compatible with your 2+2 though. Call them and ask what would be involved. The owner (Uryk) is first rate by all accounts. Here is their website:
http://www.etypefabs.com/gearbox.htm

The JT5 boxe is designed to be installed without modification to your car. Plug-and-play! The e-type fabs box may be as well. Trust Uryk to give you the straight truth about his product. That is far more than can be said for most of the other manufacturers!

All of the other boxes have had problems reported, have advertising that is clearly BS, or are so new as to be complete unknowns with no visible advantage to the already well known and well sorted transmissions I've already mentioned. Do a search in the Jag-lovers forum archives to see for yourself:

http://search.jag-lovers.org/search04/index.php

It is a frequently discussed topic since everyone wants one in their heart of hearts. Note: I don't have one and therefore have no axe to grind. I've got a 3.07 rear end which seems fine up to 135 mph. I'm not willing to run my engine faster than that (~5400 rpm), so I've never seen the magic 150. I'd love a five speed and will likely get one once I've replaced my clutch and found a high quality hardtop in good shape and .... You know the story.

Cheers,
Larry

[christopher storey]

There is only a handful of E type Fabs boxes in service, and judging by a colleague's attempts to buy one in the last 6 months, and total failure to obtain one, it seems that there are significant production difficulties. In any event, in the modern era where sustained high speed is a rarity ( even in Germany now) what is the point of going to a lot of trouble and expense? This is particularly so when you consider that most of the 5 speeders use much wider ratios than the early 4.2 ( EJ series) box, and thus spoil the overtaking potential of 2nd gear which is still one of the great attractions of the car

[Heuer]

Christopher

The various ratios for Jaguar and 5 speed boxes are as follows:

3.97, 2.34, 1.46, 1.0, 0.76 - JT5 (recommended for 2.88 and 3.07 diffs, discontinued)
3.57, 2.07, 1.38, 1.0, 0.76 - Getrag 225
3.37, 1.86, 1.28, 1.0, n/a - Moss box
3.35, 1.99, 1.33, 1.0, .68 - JT5 variant
3.35, 1.99, 1.33, 1.0, .73 - JT5 variant
3.35, 1.99, 1.33, 1.0, .83 - JT5 variant
3.35, 1.99, 1.33, 1.0, .90 - JT5 variant
3.31, 2.08, 1.36, 1.0, 0.763 - E-Type UK Broadsport
3.23, 1.90, 1.39, 1.00, n/a - Jaguar KP/KM
3.04, 1.97, 1.32, 1.00, n/a - Jaguar EJS
2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.0, 0.8 - Watjag T5/T5
2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.0, .63 - JT5 variant
2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.0, .73 - JT5 variant
2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.0, .80 - JT5 variant
2.93, 1.90, 1.39, 1.0, n/a - Jaguar K* series box
2.68, 1.74, 1.27, 1.0, n/a - Jaguar EJ series box

Can't find any information on the ETF ratios unfortunately.

I sometimes need to sustain speeds of 90mph so 5th is a welcome relief to reduce stress on both car and occupants.

[JEP41]

Hi All,

Just thought I would give my ten penny worth. I purchased two second hand T5 gearboxes from E-Bay one was from a Cosworth the other a TVR for around ?400 each. I have had them to Glebe engineering in Stoke-on-trent and their gearbox man has rebuilt the boxes fitted their own rear casing and mechanical speedo drive. they were collected complete with the Jaguar four bolt drive shaft hubs and a beautiful CNC machined adaptor to the bell housing. I discussed the weakness of the speedo drive and subsequent failures to 5th gear and was told this was a person problem rather than design problem. However the design has been been beefed up. Over the coming winter I will install one in the C-type and one in the E-Type and see how they perform, time will tell. Cost from Glebe was ?1200 + vat per box making the outlay for the two around ?1600 each. If they perform it will be money well spent.

[christopher storey]

I realise I am a dissentient minority here, but we've all become too afraid of revs! There is a fascinating paper which WM Heynes presented in 1953 which indicates a lubricant test , temperature controlled at 130C , where an engine which had been run in for 10 hours only was then tested at full throttle for 24 hours at 5000rpm, with 5 minutes at 5250, 5500 and 6000 rpm every 2 hours. At the end the engine was still within limits for a new production engine

It's a very interesting paper anyway on XK design

http://www.myds420.info/motor/m.01.m.html

Chris

[JEP41]

Hi Chris,
I have to disagree with you on the fear of revs, on a track day I shift gear at 6000 rpm all day. I build my own engines and balance all components to one tenth of a gram I have 100% faith my engines will happily rev to 6000 rpm continually. I use the 5 speed gearbox for road use only to keep the noise levels down and fuel economy up, with triple webbers the car is very thirsty and the fifth gear helps reduce consuption on ordinary road use :)

[5speeds]

This is particularly so when you consider that most of the 5 speeders use much wider ratios than the early 4.2 ( EJ series) box, and thus spoil the overtaking potential of 2nd gear which is still one of the great attractions of the car

The question is how many people actually have EJ series boxes out there? The K series box has a slightly "wider" 3-4 ratio drop than a JT5 with a 2.95 1st. The ratio spreads are fairly close to the K series. I agree that they are not as close as the EJ series, but realistically you should be more concerned about 4-5 or 3-4 up shifts and down shifts which is why a close spread between those gears are needed for the street.

Take the time to read http://www.5speeds.com/ratios.html

Also I'm sure most people realize ( or maybe don't) that the Glebe transmissions actually lifted a mold off of a JT5 tail. Its always a mystery to me why people throw roses at a company that counterfeits our products. Its a fact that Glebe, Watson, and Elite all have lifted molds off our castings.

[christopher storey]

Yes, I took the time to read it . It does not alter the fact that in Europe where we have heavy traffic , ( and usually 3.07 final drives) the ability to reach 75 mph in 2nd gear is one of the great attractions of the closer ratio boxes which is sadly lacking in the much wider ratio T5 based boxes and indeed in the KJ boxes. Since I have had one example of each of the Jaguar boxes for about 15 years I am rather familiar with the problem

[daverawle]

About one year ago on this forum there was a thread about the merits, or otherwise of various 5 speed box conversions. At the time I had just fitted a JT5 to my 3.8 and commented that I would report back. 5k miles later I've been reminded to do that by a p-message so here are my observations.

The improvement, over the Getrag it replaced, is huge - it shifts so much better and the ratios feel right for the car.

The gearstick is in the correct place without the convoluted linkage of the Getrag.

The o/d 5th gear gives 70 mph at around 2200 rpm with a 3.31:1 diff which I find perfect for touring.

Although I didn't fit the box myself I'm told that it went in reasonably smoothly - one issue being a web in the casting of the custom bell-housing which had to be ground off to accommodate the 9.5" diaphragm clutch.

The box generates some noise and as it fills the transmission tunnel, there's little space to add soundproofing internally so I will be fitting extra soundproofing to the outside of the tunnel.

My JT5 had a considerable fluid leak between the main casing and the tail-housing which was very annoying as most of the engine leaks had been fixed. Unsatisfactorily this has been temporarily stopped by liberally smearing the joint with JB Weld. I have not been dumb enough to have interfered with the bolts securing the castings and have spoken to Paul about the problem.

As I said these are observations and not opinions so I hope they are helpful to anyone thinking of fitting a 5 speed 'box.

Dave

[Heuer]

Dave

Thanks for the feedback - always interesting to get an owners view. Fit Koolmat internally for heat and noise insulation, fantastic product.

[1954Etype]

Dave

Thanks for the feedback - always interesting to get an owners view. Fit Koolmat internally for heat and noise insulation, fantastic product.

Yep, agreed except that I have cold feet now in the E Type. (Just can't keep some people happy)

[5speeds]

My JT5 had a considerable fluid leak between the main casing and the tail-housing which was very annoying as most of the engine leaks had been fixed. Unsatisfactorily this has been temporarily stopped by liberally smearing the joint with JB Weld. I have not been dumb enough to have interfered with the bolts securing the castings and have spoken to Paul about the problem.

I'm glad you at least took the time to post your results of the JT5 ( good or bad) on a forum. I welcome it. As with our phone conversation about this I mentioned that units are leak checked and run up before shipping so I was a little concerned why this would happen. I honestly have never had one leak like this after we test them. I did mention that I would pay for shipping both ways to get the unit looked at and resealed. Again this has never happened.

I'm sure you never loosened the extension bolts, which can easily break the seal. Even though... if you ever decide to remove it regardless of the time frame I'll take care of it.
Paul

[daverawle]

Thank you Paul; I appreciate your backup.

Dave