Fishing for Haddock?

[PeterCrespin]

What does the word 'Haddock' mean to you? Grimsby trawlers? Billingsgate market? Fish & chips?

For anyone who is seriously involved with E-Types, it will have a different word association. Dr. Thomas Haddock's encyclopaedic work has been out of print for some time, so even if a copy turns up on eBay the bidding often climbs to triple-digit bidding for the first edition. The second edition also sells.

The latest collaboration of Haddock and Dr. Mike Mueller is now available as a hardback book with over 1568 colour detail photos. Armed with this book, you arguably have originality info about E-Types (6-cylinder models in this case) that even Jaguar documentation wouldn't give you. For an E-Type lover who wants to get the smallest details right, Haddock is invaluable and is streets ahead of any other book that I'm aware of, if you count breadth of detail as well as depth. It documents the 6-cylinder cars to a level never previously reached. I bet there are changes and variances shown that the factory did not realize. Jaguar Classic staff have already ordered copies....!

This work is granular down to the correct original wheel weights, minor casting changes in various parts, hidden locations of identification numbers and factory markings, built-in factory flaws and more. Is there a catch? Only a tiny one.... Both of the authors are JCNA members and have granted JCNA exclusive distribution rights for an initial period (not sure how long). See the JCNA website: http://www.jcna.com/shop/items/58 and look for the item code A-JAGUAR-SIX. It may be at the top of the list by now to save searching.

Disclaimer: I'm a JCNA member but have nothing to do with the book sales or any commercial or creative link. Haddock will never mean the same again...

[Heuer]

Blimey - £140 delivered to the UK! £116 if your are a JCNA member which no one outside the US is likely to be. Slightly disappointing that once again UK residents get screwed (see DVD's, CD's, iTunes etc) when buying American goods. Can't the JCNA sell it to us poor impoverished Brits with a £25 discount to compensate for the postage Pete?

And then Porter is reissuing his seminal book (again!) with an originality chapter - more expense!

[christopher storey]

In any event, it is not a book I am enthusiastic about. It is fine for the US market where I presume that most of the details are correct. Unfortunately, from my limited experience with it, the same cannot be said for UK or European supplied cars . One of the problems is that there were too many detailed substitutions in the factory on the rather more limited numbers of RHD cars for Haddock reliably to keep track of them . Another difficulty is that US cars had much dealer fitted equipment which did not apply to RHD cars . Its an interesting book with a lot of useful information , but not in my opinion to be regarded as the Gospel ( and if so, which one ?? )

[richard btype]

Peter - The headlines a winner - we don't need Haddock when we have the brilliant 3.8 factory fit on this forum!

[chrisfell]

Not in the market for this book, even at the reduced price for JCNA members (which I am not), but I do recall Austin Mitchell changing his name to Haddock to get people to eat more fish. Not sure if it worked, or if he had any connection with E-Types.

[timhum]

This book is available in the UK from Motor Books for £95 inclusive of postage.
Tim

[Heuer]

Well netted Tim! Removes the cost objection. The authors are well respected so I have no doubt it will be valuable.

[Durango2k]

Well,

Captain Haddock from Tin Tin / Tim and Struppi comes to my mind first.



Buurrrp !

I bought a copy of that very book lots of years ago for about 20 Euros....

Carsten

[steve3.8]

Pete ,

Have you had a birds eye view of this book and run your fingers through it ? , if so what approximate percentage would you say is new over the old edition ? .

[PeterCrespin]

The book is not cheap but at the exchange rate I assume they expected, it would have been better. The one I have is mostly black & white. Since I will never enter concours I'm not in the market, but do expect to get a review copy. I trust the reviewer.

Chris makes good points. Also, for the V12 owners the Dick Russ book is available again on CD, with a spiral bound document accompanying it.

[Heuer]

Link to Motorbooks UK: https://www.motorbooks.co.uk/notes.asp?bookid=110314



"Hard cover with dust jacket * 516 pages * 1568 black and white, and color photographs
This book on Jaguar E-type originality is based on research spanning almost five decades, and Drs. Haddock and Mueller include extensive new information from an exhaustive four-year examination of the Mueller collection of over fifty E-types. As such, the book is archaeological in nature, based more on observations of cars than on factory publications or other literature. The examination of principally un-restored cars, many partly or completely disassembled and still retaining their original configuration, permitted discovery of much detailed information not reported before. The large volume of data used in the compilation of this work permitted statistical analysis of production changes that would be impossible with a smaller data-set. It significantly advances the understanding of the original configuration of these remarkable cars.

A few of the many topics treated in the book are:

Variations between early and late E-type Moss transmissions
An analysis of engine block and head part numbers and configurations, especially the complex and numerous variations of 4.2-liter engine blocks
A review of the myriad of small sheet-metal variations in the tub, bonnet and doors, especially the subtle changes in coupe bodywork in early in 3.8-liter E-type production
Hidden markings on instruments
Review of the subtle variations in the early cooling fan motors
Coupe sun-visor evolution
Markings and tags on carburetors
Markings on the various tires originally supplied on E-types"


Perhaps the JCNA will sit up and take notice of some of the originality items we have highlighted in the Factory Fit section of the Forum which they will not accept into their concours judging e.g. the rectangular FHC sun visor; three versions of the HT conduit; fluted front side lights. However as the authors have based the book on "observations of cars than on factory publications or other literature" I doubt it will effect the the Judging Guides.

So this book is going to be potentially harmful to any owner aspiring to a concours car but great fun for those of us who like to tinker!

Pete - do you have a view as a JCNA luminary?

[ralphr1780]

Has anyone noticed the current price levels for the older edition?

More expensive than the owners manual!

[Monkeyfinger]

I got excited a few years ago when they had one for £1,500. I had visions of the value of the book i brought from new outstripping that of the car. I think the last few I've seen sold on EBay have all been less than £100, so the Amazon prices are just fantasy.

[bopperd]

I guess I could sell my second edition and have enough money to buy two of the current edition. Am I missing something here? BTW, I can save $CAD40.00 by buying the newest version from Motor Books in the UK rather than JCNA in the US. Someone needs to whack JCNA up side the head and say "Yo! It's a global market, stupid!"

[Heuer]

Whilst we are at it there is another book due out shortly documenting the restoration of 850060:



"Over the years the E-type Jaguar has built a reputation amongst Jaguar enthusiasts and classic car collectors for being the ultimate classic to own. If you are lucky enough to own one and are planning to undertake the restoration work by yourself, this manual will take you through the full nut-and-bolt restoration of a very early example, E-Type Jaguar Chassis No 60. Restoration experts from the world's premier Jaguar restoration company, Classic Motor Cars Ltd, have written each chapter, giving you a first-hand account of the process. Topics covered include preparing a workspace and dismantling the vehicle; restoring and painting the body; engine, electrics and transmission restoration; assembly of the sub-assemblies; final assembly; trimming; road test and the first outing."

£36 from Motorbooks - due out 17 April 2017

[PeterCrespin]

Perhaps the JCNA will sit up and take notice of some of the originality items we have highlighted in the Factory Fit section of the Forum which they will not accept into their concours judging e.g. the rectangular FHC sun visor; three versions of the HT conduit; fluted front side lights. However as the authors have based the book on "observations of cars than on factory publications or other literature" I doubt it will effect the the Judging Guides. So this book is going to be potentially harmful to any owner aspiring to a concours car but great fun for those of us who like to tinker!

Pete - do you have a view as a JCNA luminary?

Concours leave me stone cold David. I see them as a good day out, ruined by lack of driving and bug-squash.

I am a mere editor and no luminary.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. In the land of North American concours, the organizers/originators JCNA get to set the judging criteria. Haddock and Mueller are part of that process I believe and I am told there are no contradictions between their book and JCNA info. So you'll have to buy the Haddock book and see if they include your Factory Fit features. If not, you'll have to persuade them as well as JCNA I guess? I hear that almost every other formal concours system extant, is basically a local version of the JCNA system. Don't know, don't really care, but the words 'bite/hand/feed' spring to mind.

Having codified the criteria,JCNA get to set the methods for their subsequent updating. If a contestant disagrees about a non-originality deduction there is an excellent formal protest system, which sometimes result in the penalty being removed. l think Mueller and Haddock are involved in that too, at some level.

JCNA have a systematic, objective, system for altering the judging criteria they developed and maintain for their own concours championships' There's a new version in development AFAIK. If you met their criteria the guidance would change. If your tweaks didn't meet their criteria, you are not alone, but if they are real there's still hope extra evidence might crop up, I suppose. I would always place the onus on the 'discoverer' of new info to validate their claim.

Because sellers of judged cars (especially auction houses) like to cite JCNA results to boost their car's value, JCNA's name gets dragged through the mud when clearly non-compliant cars are cited as having won events.

These citations are often bogus, so JCNA wrote to all main auction houses telling them not to cite JCNA results without asking JCNA to verify. That stopped the practice but now the crooks cite "This car was evaluated by [number] of JCNA judges, who found it to be perfect." (or whatever) i.e. one usually finds the cars have not been in competitive concours. The 'Judge's opinion' is just that - an unverified anonymous 'opinion'.

[Heuer]

I have no interest in concours either Pete but quite enjoy understanding what Jaguar intended though often concealed. I am in fairly regular contact with Bob Stevenson (we also share an interest in firearms) and I do understand that to be proven as correct there should be a Factory document trail. In many cases this is impossible e.g.

• • fluted side lenses changed in early 1965 but the part numbers remained the same, possibly out of embarrassment due to damaged moulds
  
  • only UK/European market FHC's seem to have had the rectangular sun visors

On the other hand the three HT conduits had three separate part numbers plus SPB's but the JCNA have elected not to include the variations despite the community going to the trouble of getting the original made with Julian Barratt's help. Not of any real concern to me but it does leave a grey area between documented and observed for anyone who wants to compete with their car.

I have ordered the new book and no doubt it will be an interesting and constructive read. I will share my thoughts when it arrives. An updated JCNA Judging Guide would also be invaluable to those who are just starting their restoration and are trying to do the job properly as it is definitive, detailed and most importantly free!

P.S. when is your restoration book coming out?

[PeterCrespin]

I'm probably not going to bother finishing the book. I've got two cars in the workshop that have hardly been touched and I need to get projects finished and sell off some of my spares stash. Doing the Jaguar Journal takes a fair bit of time so I hardly get in the workshop. When I do there's always something that needs doing on our daily driversI or big mowing machine ir snowblower etc. At the last count I had 14 internal combustion engines to keep on top of...

Above all I need to get my D rivcetted up and over here for completion.

I had a gentleman's agreement with Veloce but no signed contract or advance.

[Durango2k]

That would be a pity, Pete, to not finishing it...

Carsten

[JimmyS]

Alternative supplier selling the book for £95

http://www.chaters.co.uk/prod/19834/jag ... lity-guide