Series 1 to V12?

[Dave H]

Hi Guys,
If I get some series 3 V12 engine frames and a V12 engine and Box,will I be able to fit them to my 1964 series 1 2+2 bodytub,also will I need to use a series 3 bonnet to get the clearance over the V12 and does it all line up.
If not it's the straight 6 route,but there's no substitute for horses at the drags.
Dave

[daverawle]

Hi Guys,
If I get some series 3 V12 engine frames and a V12 engine and Box,will I be able to fit them to my 1964 series 1 2+2 bodytub,also will I need to use a series 3 bonnet to get the clearance over the V12 and does it all line up.
If not it's the straight 6 route,but there's no substitute for horses at the drags.
Dave

Dave, I think you will find this chaps site worthwhile:
http://www.etypepat.f-snet.com

Dave

[christopher storey]

Look, in the first place there is no such thing as a 1964 2+2 shell . Secondly, there are hundreds of changes between the 6 cylinder cars and the 12 cylinder ones. Flared wheelarches, wider tyres, power steering, a completely different bonnet etc are just the start. The front suspension is completely different with few if any parts being interchangeable. I rather think the bulkhead is significantly different also. If you embark on this, even if you complete it you are likely to end up with a car which is a bastard in every sense, and which will have little if any value. If you want a V12, there are plenty for sale at very modest prices for the most part because they are not as popular as the 6 cylinder cars

[christopher storey]

Dave : I've just read your post on the welcome section and I am even more concerned . The shell provides the strength in these cars . If it is a basket case then it is likely to be badly corroded in the floors and sills and the frame mounting points - even quite good looking cars often are. Attempting drag racing from such a starting point risks creating a death trap for you and more importantly for others. If that car were to start breaking up in motion , catastrophe would be round the corner.

[Heuer]

Christopher's comments not withstanding you might want to consider a V8 rather than the V12. Go over to Jag-Lovers and have a look at the 'Lumps' forum - they have lots of experience of such changes in the US.

[Dave H]

Thanks for the welcome Christopher,I had assumed this was a friendly site,I only wanted answers,not a slagging off!
Of course the car will be bastardised,that's the whole point of the drag race project,it WILL be safe as it will have a full roll cage welded in,braced floor etc etc.To go drag racing you have to pass scrutineering!
Yes I am doing the work myself,I'm an engineer and qualified welder/fabricator,not someone who puts their car in a garage for an oil change.It's getting flared rear arches anyway for the larger wheels,The idea is not to buy one of the "moderately priced cars"that someone else can enjoy restoring to concourse condition,but to resurrect something that is beyond normal repair and turn it into a useful practical race car.Would you be happy if I ripped apart a rare concourse model and turned it into a drag racer?Thought not!
I stated it was a 64 2+2 as that was what the guy who sold it described it as,personally i'm not interested in the "oh it's got a 6 bolt whatever so it must be from mid XX year production",I get enough of that at the A30 club where they can't understand why I'm going hillclimbing in that when it's finished this year.
As to the reduced value you assume,A turnkey drag car fetches more than an average E anyway.
You may have read my post but I doubt you understood it.
Dave

[Heuer]

Dave

The S3 V12 used different front frames to the 6 cylinder cars and I am not sure whether they will fit without modification. Such modification needs to be done to the body shell, not the frames which are made of a special steel. First port of call would be to speak to Uryk at E-Type Fabs http://www.etypefabs.com/ has he knows more about the front frames than anyone else, given he makes them. I assume you could fit the S1 bonnet with the V12 engine although I have no idea if it would require further modification. The S3 is based on the 2+2 body shell so you are in with a fighting chance that things will fit. There are a lot of cheap V12 engines out there but Jaguar designed it for torque rather than out and out power so I am not sure if there would be any benefit in using one over the 6 cylinder which can be goosed to produce over 300bhp anyway. As I said earlier you could consider an American V8 which would be easier and cheaper to modify but maybe it takes you too far away from the Jaguar ideal.

As for tuning up the V12 it would be worth your while talking to Rob Beere as he races one very successfully. Interesting project so please keep us updated and feel free to ask questions.

[Moeregaard]

Some years back, Jason Len, owner of XKs Unlimited here in Calfornia, built up what he called a "Series 4" OTS, combining V12 mechanical bits with Series One sheet metal to produce a very nice one-off car. I saw this car "in the flesh" and while it was very nicely done, it was obviously a lot of effort--and Jason restores E-Types professionally. Is Dave's project feasible? Probably, but my approach would be to find a buyer for his existing six-cylinder bodyshell and find a stripped-out Series 3 (aborted restorations are great for this) and build his dragster up from that. The wider frame spacing will be an advantage should he decide to lump the car with an American V8, and the long-wheelbase chassis will accept some automatic gearboxes without carving up the tunnel.

Just my two cents' worth...

[christopher storey]

Dave H : I'm sorry that I offended you. My intention was to save you from becoming one of the legion of people who start on an E rebuild only to find , having sunk a great deal of time and money into it ,that the project is impossible to complete. It took Jaguar a good deal of effort and investment to turn the 6 cylinder car into the 12 cylinder model : and , as I was trying gently to point out , a great deal of research will be necessary to carry out your proposed conversion

[Dave H]

Thanks all for the tech advice,Thanks too Christopher for the apology,sorry we got off on the wrong footing.
As someone who can take advice it would seem the straight 6 route is the route to follow based on your comments,plus it resolves the engine frames and bonnet issues.
FYI,the shell has no ID,probably will end up on a Q or age-related,not really an issue for me.It also has no floor to speak of,but does have a good roof,bulkhead,new inner sills fitted and is a starting point.I have looked at the Martin Robey panels,whilst of great quality I enjoy the challenge of doing my own fabrication as it allows me to put strengthening in where required for racing.
It is currently under wraps at the side of the garage till I finish the A30,come spring when that is rolled out i'll move it to centre stage and get some photo's to post on here so you can see the size of the job.The A30 has taken me 3 years so far,i'm expecting around a 5 year build on this one.I intend using Jaguar bits where possible,but not neccessarily E type ones.I have vague memories of talking to Rob Beere in the early 90's when I was using a S2 XJ6 at Melbourne,bored out to 4.5 with triple SU's plus over 1/2 a ton of interior and other bits removed ran a 14 second standing quarter 122mph over the line.
Dave

[AussieEtype]

Remember that the prototypes of the series 3s were series 2 body shells with what is now series 3 front ends. We have one of the X cars here in Canberra.

Dave - why bother with series 3 stuff on the front - you sound experienced enough to simply build your own front end and make your own series 3 bonnet in fibreglass - the X car I mentioned above uses a home made fibreglass bonnet when it goes racing as it is too expensive to damage the original bonnet.

i would consider a V8 - possible a 6 litre Gen 3 V8 out of a Corvette or Holden Commodore - much lighter than a V12 and can extract more power cheaper.

Cheers

Garry