S1 front indicator lenses orig vs repro

[Jeremy]

While trying to sort out my front light units I noticed for the first time that one indicator lens is v different from the other. I couldn't find anything about it in the Factory Fit thread. I know about the flat chrome divider and the absence of a metal screen between clear and orange zones on the repros, but I was surprised to see the profile of the orangey bit is completely different (not just the inner surface pattern). I'm assuming the one with a pointy leading edge is original (it looks v old and is marked with all the Lucas marks), although I can't find a photo of any similar on unrestored cars. Any ideas if the pointy version is (a) correct and (b) available anywhere?





Or should I clean the old one up and go for the asymmetrical Vivien Leigh look when I (eventually) get this lady back together?

[Heuer]

Interesting observation. Is the internal pattern the same on both? As far as I know the slim one is original as seen in the Lucas catalogues:

Lucas Parts Catalogue 1965: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0zlnugv0vbrub ... 5.pdf?dl=1
Lucas Parts Catalogue 1968: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0s3z6r5yq8fbo ... 8.pdf?dl=1

[Jeremy]

Inside and outside pattern completely different:
"Original" - completely smooth outside surface, cross-wise (vertical when installed) ridges on the inside
New - longitudinal ridges on the outside, cross-wise on the inside, creating a kind of chequerboard of squares when you look through:

[MarekH]

Dear Jeremy,

The first thing you need to ascertain is into which market your car was originally sold. For all we know it may have been standard fit in, say , Switzerland, for one year only or something like that. It'd be useful to know when your car left the factory also.

I can probably make you one if you send me the original, but it'd involve dismantling and cleaning the original. Being old, there is every possibility that it'd break in the process.

kind regards
Marek

[Jeremy]

Hi Marek,

That is a fantastic offer - but as you say it might not be the correct design. Seems odd that they would have changed the design for something that isn't obviously better, late in the S1's life. This is an original UK car, 1E21509, date of manufacture 25 April 1967. Never left the UK. But of course this lens might be a non-UK spare fitted at some stage - in which case I'd prefer to fit a correct UK part on both sides.

Fascinating that you can make copies of these things. I assume they were injection moulded originally but you must have a clever kind of investment casting process using the original specimen? V interesting....

[GSR 54D]

Last Sunday whilst at a club meet in Alresford I showed my 2 different indicator lenses, which match Jeremy's, to a long term restoration "expert" and answer was the bulged lens was an early one!

[MarekH]

That doesn't particularly make any sense, since none of the early cars have them. It's really no better than "a bloke down the pub reckons...".

My guess would be that it is response to a report of suggested poor illumination at some time and the trial fix although tested, was not implemented.

It could be that it was done at roughly the same time as the changeover from the early patterned tip to the later design, but equally, it may not.

I am near Guildford if you want to drop by for a cup of tea and discuss....

kind regards
Marek

[Heuer]

There have been a couple of examples posted on J-L, again both cars had the humpback lens on one side only. A Canadian car had amber/clear whilst the US car had clear/clear. The SAE code on the lens (SAE DP 65) says it was made some time after 1965:
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
D = Directional
P = Parking
65 = 1965

It would be helpful if you could provide the Lucas numbers and markings.

More info here: https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/front-p ... n/355302/3

[Jeremy]

My hump-backed lens is marked LUCAS, ENGLAND, L652, on both clear and orange sections. It is also marked SAE DP 65 on the orange section only.

The flatter profile replacement also has the LUCAS, ENGLAND, L652, markings sections but SAE DP 65 doesn't appear anywhere.

[Heuer]

The SAE DP 65 code is the model year (1965) for which the vehicle was first produced. The lens could have been used in subsequent years or for other vehicles without a change in the code. If this was an aftermarket lens, the year could be for first production of the lens, rather than the vehicle. As SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) was originally a US standard I would venture to suggest these humpback lenses were aftermarket produced by Lucas for the US.

It could be the humpback lens allowed the fitment of a larger or higher wattage bulb without causing the lens to melt. I assume that would have been legal in the US but not so in the UK where 21W was the maximum allowed.

In any case your "expert" was misinformed

[MarekH]

It is unhelpful that a totally different lens piece has the same number on it as the fatter cousin, but that's Lucas for you.

If it is something American dealers asked for, then perhaps someone can ask George Camp - he has the archives for that. I don't seem to have his address, even though we have corresponded.

On a similar note, Lucas side marker lenses for the federal spec etype have the same L number on them as the slimmer ones for the big saloons. I suspect that dealers will have retrofitted them without realising they were different parts. Also the left and right side markers carry the same Lucas L number, so there are four different parts carrying the same number.

kind regards
Marek

[Heuer]

They do have different numbers Marek:
"The larger piece on the US spec lens shows numbers of 54571883 Amber and 54572045 Clear while the lens in question shows 54577017 Amber and 54577018 Clear".

Jeremy has not looked carefully enough - the numbers are very small and on the inside edge of the lens.

[Jeremy]

Indeed, I didn't see those tiny numbers. And they are as you state:
the humpback version amber section has "54577017 Amber 54577018 Clear"
the flatter version amber section has "54571883 Amber 54572045 Clear"

the clear section is the same for both: "54571884 FR1"

[MarekH]

Indeed they do.
I was simply referring to the big number starting with with an "L" stamped onto the front face.

kind regards
Marek

[Heuer]

Interestingly none of those numbers match either the 1962 or 1965 Lucas catalogues:

[ysmalkie]

David,

I think the numbers on the individual lens parts make either 54572374 or 54572375.

This means that probably:
54571883 Amber + 54571884 Clear = 54572374 in 52465A & 52517A lamp
54572045 Clear + 54571884 Clear = 54572375 in 52518A & 52519A US Spec. lamp

The Lucas catalogues I have from '61, '62, '63, '65 all show only 54572374 or 54572375 lens.

However the '68 Lucas catalogue also shows 54577274 lens in 52787A & 52788A (non US) lamps.

So maybe the 54577274 lens is the humpback version which includes the amber section 54577017?

Tadek